Women are Evil…Bible
May 5, 2008 37 Comments
There are hundreds of things that are found wrong in the Scriptures. There is not only factual and Scriptural ambiguity and error, but there is intellectual error, there is obvious human interjection of the “Godly” qualities that Yahweh, El, Jehovah, or Elohim displayed. How inexplicably egotistical to say or even think, “we are made in the image of God…that is man wishing/speaking…not God.
I’m going to risk the displeasure of the ‘gods’ here and say that no real god acts or thinks like the god/s of the Christian religion as displayed in the Bible.
There should NEVER have been slavery. I don’t think most Christian believers have even thought about this lately. A “Loving God” is totally incompatible with the fact of Old Testament-God approved-human slavery. Period…no wishy washy crap allowed here
Also a “Loving God” is totally incompatible with making half of the human race less than human. The stronger half of the human race trying to pawn off that any defects in life are the fault of the woman is pure evil, in and of it’s self.
“And a man will choose…any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman…Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die” Ecclesiasticus, 25:18, 19 & 33.
And I find more bitter than death the woman whose heart is snares and nets, whose hands are fetters. He who pleases God shall escape from her, but the sinner shall be trapped by her.” Ecclesiastes 7:26,
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power….” Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Q92, art. 1, Reply Obj. 1
Everywhere I turn and look, strong evidence comes up that religion is a purely man made phenomenon. The Christian Bible is a fraud. There is no God in residence there.
Paul made up the “original sin” BS. Paul pretty much made up the whole Christianity shtick. Well, Constantine and Eusubius helped it along…300 years later.
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What does it mean to be made in the image of God?
Finally – something about mainstream Christianity that makes sense!
Thank you for this post.
Robaigh, Thanks for writing.
Maybe you could explain to me what it means.
I just can’t seem to picture a ‘being’ that has no beginning or no end looking like us, but thats what it says in the Bible.
Genesis 1: 26-27
26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Notice in 26 he is talking in the plural: us, our.
But, none of this matters anyway, as the story is just campfire myth.
Hi Jerome M., Thanks for writing.
Yea, theres a whole passel of things that have not, or do not, make sense…in the Bible.
There is no Christian religion out there, that I can find, that has the answers. You ask serious question about real world stuff and they all fall back to ‘it’s a mystery’ or some such crap.
It’s just amazing to me how long women have held on to these sexist beliefs from the Bible…that men continue to shove down their throat.
And for slavery to be even recognized and allowed by a god,
to my mind, proves its non-existence
thewordofme,
In my opinion, the Bible is a creation of men and not of God. It’s filled with the words of these imperfect men who likely hoped it would help advance their own personal agendas (and it has). I’m not saying it’s all false or bad, but it certainly is NOT the “inerrant word of God” most Christian tout it as.
I believe a Higher Power exists. I do not believe he/she/it looks/feels/acts like anything even remotely close to what most Christians seem to envision.
It’s been a challenge for me to separate the idiotic hypocrisy of the Church with the loving, expansive being I perceive as God – but it’s an important distinction to make. I won’t let narrow minded religious zealots rob me of God’s love – and I hope others come to the same conclusion.
Hi Jerome M, Thanks for your reply.
“Amen” to your comment on the imperfect Bible.
The closest I can come to any kind of belief in a God, is that one may have started the whole thing in motion…then went on to more important things. The whole story of personal involvement is silly…to pin on a GOD.
I really doubt that a ‘Higher Power’ is watching over us or counts our sins, or anything so mundane.
This year, I’ve gone through an excruciatingly painful spiritual crisis. For 10 years I’ve dedicated my life to Christianity and prepared my “place” up in “heaven,” all just to realize that it was all a waste. The Christians that I saw at church were hypocritical monsters, and I left a year ago. I then started going through scripture with an agnostic point of view, and I thought to myself, “My God! Do Christians really believe this???” Because back when I was a Christian, I sure didn’t. According to the Bible, God agreed with slavery, God was a sexist agreeing that the wife is the weakest partner (said by Paul) and that no one should touch or even go near a woman on her period, God promoted killings of many innocents, just because they worshipped another god, God promotes rape and violence, BUT, in the New Testament, God’s “only son” promotes love and tolerance. What? Did God change his mind? But isn’t He supposed to be unchanging “yesterday, today, and forever”? I ditched the religion, and now I’m happier and more peaceful than ever. No more control. I am a free-thinking woman. And, no, I am not damned to hell because there is NO hell.
Now I shall continue my hobby with astrology without worrying about what people would think of me.
For once in my life, I finally feel free.
Hi Willow Laurel thanks for writing.
What a pretty name you have…named for two trees.
I hope your pain has gone away by now. I don’t know what kind of help and support you can come up with where you live, but there are many friendly places and people on the interwebs that can talk you through your journey away from the supernatural.
If you ever get in the mood to backup your decision by researching the religious cons you will find plenty of info on the net, and if need be, I can point you in the right direction for a lot of it.
I’m glad you have freedom now, and remember to never let some religious fools have control over your mind and body anymore. I just can’t believe how some people degrade themselves to religious dogma that man alone has thought up, and used to imprison women for 2000 years.
I’m sorry, I just can’t resist the mention that astrology is from the same place that religion comes from, and the god of the Christian Bible is into numerology. The two are kind of interconnected and both of those fields of study rely on the supernatural and magic to make any sense at all…and as you know there is NO supernatural or real magic to be found anywhere, or at any time on earth. It’s a fairly harmless diversion; just don’t start believing in it.
Peace
twom
You think you can dissect religion because you understand what?… More than God? You understand what a “true” gods motivation would be? Let me help you with that one… NO. His logic is beyond you, me and everyone else completely.
“we are made in the image of God…that is man wishing/speaking…not God”
– What proof do you offer that God wouldn’t make us in his image? Especially being that he sent his son to earth in the image of a man?
“no real god acts or thinks like the god/s of the Christian religion as displayed in the Bible.”
– How does a real “god” act? Since your the expert… I mean what would God know?
“There should NEVER have been slavery. I don’t think most Christian believers have even thought about this lately. A “Loving God” is totally incompatible with the fact of Old Testament-God approved-human slavery. Period…no wishy washy crap allowed here”
– So god should have just come in a taken care of all their problems? As a species he granted us free will, as such we have to create our own society… God has to let us try to save ourselves before interjecting. Otherwise Christians of that time would have become too dependent on God. It’s not that God allowed slavery, humans created it. But look at the Jews being led out of Egypt for one… looks like God cared there… Dont ever pretend to think you can understand Gods motivation or reasoning. Period… no wishy washy crap allowed here…
“Also a “Loving God” is totally incompatible with making half of the human race less than human. The stronger half of the human race trying to pawn off that any defects in life are the fault of the woman is pure evil, in and of it’s self.”
– The fact that you see these people as “less than human” is purely a human point of view, they are perfect in Gods eyes, those that happen naturally of course. Disfigurements brought on by radiation and chemicals are purely a consequence of ourselves.
“And a man will choose…any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman…Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die” Ecclesiasticus, 25:18, 19 & 33.
– Doesn’t support your claim at all. Let me dumb this verse down in it’s real context… A man will be a sinner and will commit any sin, but that of the original sin which was committed by the woman (Eve) and cannot be committed again. The punishment therefore is eventual death… as before we would have all physically lived forever.
“And I find more bitter than death the woman whose heart is snares and nets, whose hands are fetters. He who pleases God shall escape from her, but the sinner shall be trapped by her.” Ecclesiastes 7:26,
– Doesn’t support your claim at all… This is talking about “THE” woman whose heart is snares and nets (an evil woman with an evil heart) This is not saying all women are evil just that there are some out there, and those that please God will escape these women, wile the sinner will be trapped by them.
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power….” Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Q92, art. 1, Reply Obj. 1
– This isn’t in the Bible… So why is it here?
You should really find better supporting evidence when your trying to make religious claims. Unfortunately, you and everyone else who has commented are all terribly stray from the truth. If you don’t have FAITH then you cannot believe in Gods word. You cant have FAITH if you dont want to and you guard yourself against it. It is sad and I hope GOD will reveal himself to you and you will see the truth someday. But this will only happen if your open to seeing him in your life.
Hi TheWordOfReality, thanks for taking the time to write.
You write:
“You think you can dissect religion because you understand what?… More than God? You understand what a “true” gods motivation would be? Let me help you with that one… NO. His logic is beyond you, me and everyone else completely.”
I think anyone is free to dissect religion. There is no God, true or otherwise, so we just dissect the follower’s descriptions of religious dogma. Since most dogma and biblical scripture was created by humans a few thousand years ago, it’s pretty easy to do.
You write:
“we are made in the image of God…that is man wishing/speaking…not God”
– What proof do you offer that God wouldn’t make us in his image? Especially being that he sent his son to earth in the image of a man?”
And: “– How does a real “god” act? Since your the expert… I mean what would God know?
God was made in the image of man. There are many discrepancies in descriptions of him and how he interacts with humans, so one can easily tell he is a product of mans imagination.
Christians, Jews, and Muslims say they worship the same God and that in itself is convincing evidence for falseness.
You write:
“It’s not that God allowed slavery, humans created it. But look at the Jews being led out of Egypt for one… looks like God cared there… Dont ever pretend to think you can understand Gods motivation or reasoning. Period… no wishy washy crap allowed here…”
A real god would not allow slavery to exist. All he would have had to do is condemn it in the scriptures and it would have (maybe) disappeared. Instead he condones it by having rules for it in scripture, and has Jesus speak in a manner that condones it. But, when you realize that the Bible is purely written by men and not by a god you understand why slavery is not condemned.
You write:
“– The fact that you see these people as “less than human” is purely a human point of view, they are perfect in Gods eyes, those that happen naturally of course. Disfigurements brought on by radiation and chemicals are purely a consequence of ourselves.”
I am talking about women all over the world in all religions…they are treated as if they were less than men. Christianity doesn’t treat women as bad as Muslim’s and some Jewish sects, but they ARE put down. In many denominations they cannot be ministers or have any positions of leadership in the church. Religion says they must submit to men’s judgment in most all matters, and down through history. they have been subjugated and demonized in some matters. Remember the Catholic Church burned perhaps millions of women as witches in the dark ages.
You write:
“And a man will choose…any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman…Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die” Ecclesiasticus, 25:18, 19 & 33.
– Doesn’t support your claim at all. Let me dumb this verse down in it’s real context… A man will be a sinner and will commit any sin, but that of the original sin which was committed by the woman (Eve) and cannot be committed again. The punishment therefore is eventual death… as before we would have all physically lived forever.”
Seems to me the Bible also relates that Adam took the second bite so they would both share the crime. And remember that God was worried that they would grab the fruit of the “Tree of Life” and live forever. However, this is really a moot point as we know there was no Adam and Eve, and no original sin as Paul invented.
“As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power….” Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Q92, art. 1, Reply Obj. 1
“– This isn’t in the Bible… So why is it here? “
It is part of religious dogma…still believed by millions of religious folks. From this writing by a churchman comes much evil…and it’s directed at women.
You write:
“You should really find better supporting evidence when your trying to make religious claims. Unfortunately, you and everyone else who has commented are all terribly stray from the truth. If you don’t have FAITH then you cannot believe in Gods word. You cant have FAITH if you dont want to and you guard yourself against it. It is sad and I hope GOD will reveal himself to you and you will see the truth someday. But this will only happen if your open to seeing him in your life.”
I think the supporting evidence is strong that religion is bogus. Before I believe in something there has to be proof that its real…religion has no proofs at all, so all anyone has is faith and that is simply not good enough for me.
twom
Either men will create religions/belief systems to oppress/control women.. Or women will create religions to/belief systems to oppress/control men.
Stop portraying talking about this evil conspiracy against women by men.. Women do the same against men.
It’s true that men probably use religions such as Christianity and Islam to control women, consciously or unconsciously. But today women sic feminism on men to control them and limit their thought patterns.
So really you’re just a hypocrite.
Hi Joe, thanks for writing.
Your logic escapes me as to why you are calling me a hypocrite.
There is no ‘probably’ about it, ALL mainline faiths use that religion to keep women down.
FUCK YOU
The Bible contains hundreds of verses and passages that today would be labeled obscence.
Tales of violence, murder, rape, slavery, gang bangs and a bloodthirsty God you kills at the drop of a hat. Christians have used this excuse for their own blood history of murder and death.
Details http://WWW.SCIENCECLUBOFLONGISLAND.COM
To Anonymous,
WTF is your problem???
I find it interesting how angry people get when their religious belief system is scrutinized. It reminds me of the character in the movie “Saved” who has her motives questioned and she shouts “I am filled with Christ’s love” after throwing her bible at another girl, who replies that the bible is not a weapon.”. Why does it bother Xtians so much that people disagree with them? Why are they so angry if “god is love” as they say. Why aren’t they just content to think we will go to hell for it and be done with it? I don’t care whether or not anyone believes what I do. Why would I waste time getting nasty and threatening and cursing as above? Where is he free will in action they speak of? Frankly, to my mind it is a hostage situation at best, “Do as I say, or I will set you on fire…..forever.”. And if god is omnipotent and omnipresent as well, how loving is it to create beings that you know will not follow you? Just so you can torture them? I find no logic in it at all.
Hi Funny Girl, thank you for writing.
Peoples religion is nowadays under attack by the “New Atheists”, according to the media, and I suppose this makes many people sensitive to outside judgment of their beliefs. Many people have been practicing and spending time and money on their religion for decades and decades. I can imagine how they would feel upon learning they have been duped. Most of them go into total denial.
I vacillate between feeling sorry for them and worrying about their sanity to thinking that they are so dumb to not see the truth that is now so evident in our modern world.
Some of them scare me silly…the ones like Pat Robertson and his band of Millenarian’s and the hold they have on the Republican Party. The ones who want the world ruled by Old Testament religious laws. Mike Huckabee is also one of those type.
Mike Huckabee is so far gone It is as if he is a SNL character. I agree with you, but sadly it seems the religious and the non republicans have a common m.o. Both are content to do nothing in spite of the facts. Religious ignore the glaring errors, and non republicans don’t mobilize.
Hi,
Men and women are equally same before God. If there’s even a possibility of the existence of God then that God must be the most justice toward His creation.In other word He must be the most perfect.. And everything around us has its own purposes and its creator..Car to drive, house to live..So do we. How can we know our real purposes in this world? We have to turn back to the manufaturer and sincerely asked for it. If that manufacturer doesnt anwser u then probably our father and mother are God because they is llikely that produced us..and we have to find out is there any user manual guide for us to live accordingly that came from that manufacturer..sure.
Hi Muhammad,
According to the Koran and the Christian Bible, women are NOT equally the same before God or Allah…Not even close.
I’m sorry I don’t understand the rest of what you are trying to say.
Thanks for writing this post, and keeping a great debate. I really like that your writing and logic is clear and well organized, I think a lot of people need simple information in order to process and intellectualize what you’re saying.
Thank you Ali.
I do believe there is a difference between men and women. Men were created stronger and more lustfull then women for a reason. The sperm causes men to lust for women in order for there to be further children for God. Why the lust of the flesh keeps the population growing is beyond me but there seems to be some sort of balance in it all. It’s like the Devil gets to be the Sperm that makes Men lust for the Flesh but then when he does it rewards God by producing more children for God. It appears God goal is to have as many children for his kingdom for him to love as he can. The Devil can’t win even though through Lust he trys to conquer man with women. Women on the other hand don’t seem to lust for a man’s flesh but for a man’s money and power that seem again to be the Devil’s vices. Men do whatever they need to in order to gain money, to gain power, so they get a more beautiful woman. Then they try and be their own God on earth with their money; to control the women they lust for. Have you seen that happen? As a result that draws man away from God. It’s a constent battle of Lust and sex, money and power. It’s a machine that keeps going based on simple principles of lust,sin, sex, money, power, . It is clear to me the only pure and holy man born, because he was not conceived by sperm but by God and the virgin Mary was Jesus. He then demonstrated when a man has no money and no power, women did not desire him for an evil reasons and he did not lust after their flesh since he was not conceived with the demon seed. That is not to say women did not want Jesus, but only in a loving way as the Lord wanted to be loved, not for evil ways dealing with Money and power. Bottomline Take away the demon seed and you take away the problem. Therefore when the souls of mankind have reached the numbers God’s wants, heaven will open and the rapture will take place. In heaven there will be no Devil, no demon seed, no sex, no money, power, .. just a perfect place with no problems or worry,. No competition , no greed, just peace with the Lord if you are willing to accept Jesus into your heart. THe simple truth of the matter is there is a God but he rules in heaven. Man rules on earth right now due to the first sin and free choice. Women took the rap due to Eve but it started a chain reaction that can’t be stopped until God says so. Men rule the earth now and the more money they have the more they rule by either control or politics. THe only way for a man to win on earth is to Love God more than his lustfull desire for women. Don’t get me wrong Men love women for other reasons than lust but that is the primary trigger for it. It’s really not about companionship or men with marry their dogs. So don’t be fooled by the fact there is what appears to be a problem. It’s part of the plan. Just don’t stop being a believer in God due to the fact some people wrote some stuff down years ago and confused you. Common sense and direct observation do wonders.
Hello Dreamer,
Your writing is a little hard to follow, but I will pick out a few things.
You write:
“In heaven there will be no Devil, no demon seed, no sex, no money, power, .. just a perfect place with no problems or worry,. No competition , no greed, just peace with the Lord if you are willing to accept Jesus into your heart. THe simple truth of the matter is there is a God but he rules in heaven. Man rules on earth right now due to the first sin and free choice.
There is no heaven, no hell, no demons, no Satan, no Angels, no Jesus, and…wait for it…no God.
You write:
“Man rules on earth right now due to the first sin and free choice. Women took the rap due to Eve but it started a chain reaction that can’t be stopped until God says so.
Oh yeah…I forgot; there was no Adam and Eve, therefore no Original Sin. All religion is a sham.
I do believe in GOD, but I’m suspicious about the all bible because is confusing or why! between the new and old testament! and I do not believe GOD forgive everyone if you don’t prouve to him you are seriouse about forgiveness and change your life style until you die, you go direct in hell! Somebody help me!
Hi Alain, thanks for writing.
I can’t quite follow what you are trying to say; is English a second language to you?
Don’t worry yourself…there is no god who is going to send you to hell. Religion is just a scam and a means to keep us inline.
Dreamer – Seriously? Women lust for men (physically) as well. I’m sorry you’ve never experienced this.
You talkin’ to me?
Just read through this whole trail and I have to admit that there are a lot of words. My wife and I are believers and she IS equal to me biblically. Here’s one that you seem to have missed, Eve ate the fruit first, but it was Adam’s sin that condemned the race. Is it really that hard to understand equality with different ROLES? I don’t mind the criticism of what I believe and I’m not angry when I say that Jesus is the (only) way, the (only) truth, and the (only) life. Only the comments by thewordofreality seem to have a clue of what it means to be a follower of the Son. My heart really goes out to this great deal of confusion…
Well hello billnaturallyspeaking, thanks for visiting.
I hope you will take the time to surf my blog and get an idea of where I am and what I believe. I am perusing your site and do like it.
You write:
“Only the comments by thewordofreality seem to have a clue of what it means to be a follower of the Son. My heart really goes out to this great deal of confusion…”
I’ll hold off on making snide comments for now. I like to get to know people before commenting one way or another.
Do you really think the human man and rabbi Jesus was a ‘god’ or part of a supernatural ‘trinity’?
I do believe that Jesus was and is the Son of God the second person of the Trinity. I believe that He was born of a virgin and lived to be about 36 years old (fully God and fully man). At that time He was crucified and carried the burden of sin (for whosoever will come) to the grave. After three days He arose and ascended to heaven where He sits at the right hand of the Father. I believe that because of what He did, I can be born twice and only have to die once. And I believe that there is rejoicing in heaven when one sinner comes to repentence. I don’t mean to sound preachy, but this IS what I believe.
Hi billnaturallyspeaking, thanks for writing.
How does the fact that Adam and Eve never existed impact your belief?
Without that Adam and Eve thing there would be no ‘original sin’ for a Jesus to expiate for us.
That ‘blood sacrifice’ thing is just so ancient and it’s unbelievable that modern people still fall for it.
I mean really…A human sacrifice to the gods???
In response, I’ll add that I believe the Bible from the “In” in Genesis 1:1 to the “Amen” of Revelation 21:21. God said that there was an Adam and Eve: you can say whatever you like, that’s your privalege, but as long as I believe that God wrote a book an that book is the Bible and God can’t lie, I’m going to believe what He said. A friend of mine once told me (and he wasn’t a believer) that if I believe and he doesn’t believe that there is nothing that he is going to tell me that will cause me to not believe just as there is nothing that I’m going to tell him that is going to cause him to believe. There is a lot of wisdom in that. I can’t rely on my words to change your mind, only the power of the Sprit behind His words that promise that they will not return void. Don’t you realize that both of us can look at the same facts and draw different conclusions? Neither your or my preconceived notion is based on the facts, but are entered in by the person making the observation. Here’s an example, you make the statement that Adam and Eve didn’t exist because of the evidence that points to a small (but not 2) group of people in the African area of the world from which worldwide modern man can be genetically linked. I don’t see that as evidence to make the same statement. I see it as evidence that follows what the Bible says in that this is the area from which all people originintated, and am not looking to the two from the beginning but the 8 from the flood. It’s the same evidence, but two very different conclusions.
Of course the DNA evidence says there was never a time when the human population was only two or six (Noah evidently had no more kids after the flood).
I understand that you can believe whatever you want and I support that right.
However the real world physical evidence just keeps piling up against the stories of the Bible in so many areas.
You can believe that god created Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago, but those who keep an open mind know that humans have been roaming the earth for about 200,000 years…there is just overwhelming real physical evidence for this.
You can believe that there was an Noachian flood about 4300+- years ago, but those who research the science find that there is absolutely no physical real world evidence for a world wide flood and subsequent total destruction of all human cultures and civilizations that literally covered the earth at that time.
Of course you can believe that there was an event after the ‘Flood’ called the ‘Tower of Babel’ wherein god confused the currant language in Mesopotamia and thereby scattered man over the earth. I however have researched this story and find that it cannot be true because we know for a fact that humans were spread all over the earth (except Antarctica) by no later than 13,000 years ago…probably by 25,000 years ago.
Those writers of the Old Testament had no concept of science and what it could accomplish in later years…they could not conceive of a world where things could actually be researched in hundreds of ways and the actual real truth found out.
I know you believe that the Jewish race more or less started in Egypt around 3500 +- years ago and Moses gathered them together and then left Egypt, crossed the Red sea, and came into the ‘promised land’ by way of killing off the people who then inhabited the land. Archaeologists however have been researching this and many other Hebrew myths for over a hundred years.
First off they are unable to find ANY evidence of a group of people over a million strong passing through and camping the Sinai desert for 40 years…at any time…its just not there. Also archaeology has been telling us for over 50 years that the walls of Jericho falling and all the other cities mentioned in the Bible as victims of Joshua’s army didn’t happen.
All of the Biblical stories from above have so much circumstantial evidence that is falsifying them…which in scientific speak means that they are probably not true. Even mainstream theologists and biblical scholars are finally accepting this evidence as truth…there is so much undeniable empirical proofs now.
Consider this…ever since religion was invented there have been many many things on earth that have been attributed to god or gods, and this went on for many hundreds of years, but slowly men started to explore and research and test their world…science was born and the scientific method was developed. Since then science has found natural explanations for things that used to be attributed to god and it has never gone the other way. Religion has never been able to explain what science has found to be natural.
Anyway, I know you will not accept any of the evidence…so be it. You live in your world and I’ll live in mine, and I wish you well…
twom
in any discussion science always wins
Science is religion. Just another way of being a heathen.
Well, lets see, if science were a religion who would we worship?? Maybe Darwin, maybe Einstein, maybe Aristotle, how about Newton??
I can see it now…we picked Darwin, and now we’re in ‘church’ and the ‘minister’ is reading from “The Origin of Species”……