Evolution, Flood, Neanderthals

Today’s Evangelical preachers and those who urge that “The Bible is the Accurate Word of God” (Answersingenesis) seem to be repeating a 170-year-old arguments

The Reverend William Buckland, the first professor of geology at Oxford University, rejected a single flood theory in 1837, 22 years before Darwin’s seminal work. He wrote:

Some have attempted to ascribe the formation of all the stratified rocks to the effects of the Mosaic Deluge; an opinion which is irreconcilable with the enormous thickness and almost infinite subdivisions of these strata, and with the numerous and regular successions which they contain of the remains of animals and vegetables, differing more and more widely from existing species, as the strata in which we find them are placed at greater depths. The fact that a large proportion of these remains belong to extinct genera, and almost all of them to extinct species, that lived and multiplied and died on or near the spots where they are now found, shows that the strata in which they occur were deposited slowly and gradually, during long periods of time, and at widely distant intervals.” My emphasis.

Even in 1837 some preachers were trying to tell us that Noah’s flood caused the stratigraphy record. Any person with just a bit of intelligence, and no preconceived notions, can see what Reverend Buckland saw. And yet, the religious right continues to push the same old argument

Neanderthals
“In 1996, Jean-Jacques Hublin and colleagues (1996, p. 224) proved that the human remains at Arcy-sur-Cure were Neanderthal. This site is a Chatelperronian site–the Chatelperronian being the earliest Upper Paleolithic technological complex. The importance of this was the association of Neanderthals with personal ornamentation, including pendants and necklaces. The necklace made the cover of Nature magazine. At that time, Hublin et al suggested that Neanderthal had obtained the necklace by means of trade or imitation. The assumption was that Neanderthal could not be intelligent enough to have invented such a symbolic object.” Wrong…see full Article: http://www.asa3.org/archive/ASA/199809/0030.html

Also see: The case of a Neanderthal skull that was carved into a drinking cup. This also has symbolic implications http://www.archaeology.org/online/news/neandertal.html.

There is already pretty good info out there that implies Neanderthals were a living, intelligent entity, well before any supposed worldwide flood.

All Neanderthal remains are found WAY below biblical era/supposed flood era relics and artifacts. This fact was noted in the 1800’s when they were first found, but it just doesn’t seem to sink into “Genesis” people and evangelicals. They just continue to deny facts. The evidence sits there, both in the field, and documented in museums.

Everyone in science sees it, understands it, knows it, and goes on with their life. The people that hold on to their superstition have a blind spot in their mind. Their mind just does not register what’s there. It filters through misrepresentations and what comes out is superstition. Any effort to lay out the truth before them is, they think, the work of the devil testing them.

Politicians are reaching out to suck up that power.

They are succeeding.

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About the word of me
Interested in family and friends,grandchildren, photography, darkrooms, history, archaeology, scuba diving, computers, software, fast cars, journalism, writing, travel, ecology, news, science, and probably most other subjects you could think of. Did I mention family and friends?? I require iced tea or cold brewed coffee and a internet connection to be fully functional. Sometimes there are just so many words in my head they spill out.

9 Responses to Evolution, Flood, Neanderthals

  1. S. P. Fraser says:

    Hello,

    I truly like your thinking. However, being an educated man of science and of the scriptures, I disagree with your hypothesis. You have to admit that the Homo Sapian remains and their tools found in Pennsylvania coal mines cuases all evolutionary theory to be incorrect. After all, these remains predate the mammal of which all primates and humans were theorized to be descended. Because this was such a recent discovery, I give you credit for a very well informed and compiled argument. Even so, I believe that the timetable is the argument. After all, the Neanderthal gives much credence to the “mark “in Cain’s forehead. I believe that Cain, being young, married many women and had many offspring while Adam and Eve were old and didn’t have many more children. Even the scriptures reflect this information. Cain’s descendants went on to invent many items and build cities. Then, in the 6th chapter of Genesis, Adam’s descendants marry with Cain’s. At this very time, Noah begins to build the ark. Now, just imagine that all of Cain’s descendants are destroyed by the flood leaving only true Homo Sapian descendants of Noah. The strata would allow people at a later date to wonder what happened to the Neanderthals. Also, there would be some evidence of mixing. Then, the small layer of strata separating the two would be very small.

    Even though I am an adamnt believer of the scriptures, I am also very scientifically and logically minded. I have come to believe that the theory of evolution is as much a religion as Christianity. They are both based on faith. After all, the scientific method is based mostly on observation. Because it has already been dicovered that strata has been overturned countless times, we don’t know for sure what the bottom strata is for a fact. Every day, evolutionist change their theory due to new discoveries which contradict old results. Even so, the scripture are written in stone and don’t change. This seems to be a very unbalanced competition. I wish that all evolutionists and scripture believing people would join hands in discovering the real truth. Maybe, both sides would be astounded at what could be found. I hope to hear from you. After all, we are both seekers of the truth.

    Chip

  2. thewordofme says:

    Hello S.P. Fraser, thank you for your reply.

    Last things first. Yes I agree it would be great if all people could get along and stop killing and maiming each other; especially the religionists of this world. I don’t think you will find many scientists that will kill each other over competing theories. They usually cooperate with each other even when their countries are at odds.

    You write:
    “You have to admit that the Homo Sapian remains and their tools found in Pennsylvania coal mines cuases all evolutionary theory to be incorrect. After all, these remains predate the mammal of which all primates and humans were theorized to be descended.”

    I haven’t heard of recent finds in Pennsylvania coal mines, so you are one up on me there. I have found many references to old finds going back to the 1880’s from Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. Perhaps you could give me an internet reference to look up. To be before mammals the remains would have to be somewhere over two to four hundred million years old…that’s not too likely. More than likely what’s called an ‘oopart’, an ‘out of place artifact.’

    You have to be careful there saying that one thing disproves all the science of evolution. I could come back at you and list the proofs that Noah’s flood, the Tower of Babel, and the 4000+ – BC creation story of Adam and Eve disproves the Bible and Christianity…and the scientific proof is out there for all to see and research.

    You write:
    “After all, the Neanderthal gives much credence to the “mark “in Cain’s forehead. I believe that Cain, being young, married many women and had many offspring while Adam and Eve were old and didn’t have many more children. Even the scriptures reflect this information. Cain’s descendants went on to invent many items and build cities.”

    Actually Adam and Eve supposedly went on have Seth at 130 years old, and then went on to have many sons and daughters. I’ve heard anywhere from 35 to 50 more children. POOR ol’ Eve.

    Yes, one of Cain’s descendants (Tubal-Cain), according to the Bible, invented metal working of Iron and Bronze. The only problem about this story is that Ironworking wasn’t known of until about 1200 BC…long, long after the ‘Flood’ and the death of Tubal-Cain. Also the ‘first’ city in the Middle East seems to be Jericho at about 8000 BC.

    The Neanderthals seemingly disappeared as a race about 30,000 years ago…about the time that modern human types were painting animal portraits in caves in France and Spain, and 20,000 years before that there are signs of Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal bones together in caves in Mt. Carmel in the Holy Land.

    So far it seems that Neanderthal died out looong before the Hebrews made up the myth of ‘Creation’ by a God that hadn’t been around for the hundreds of thousands of years when humans were on earth before them. Moses only writes about God showing himself to Abraham somewhere around 1700 BC…where was He before that? Humans had been around for many, many, many years and were spread ALL over the earth and had a population in the many millions before this Hebrew ‘God’ decided to show himself to a wandering sheep/goat herder, and thereafter personally interfered in the petty lives and machinations of a small race of wandering people.

    You write:
    “Even though I am an adamnt believer of the scriptures, I am also very scientifically and logically minded. I have come to believe that the theory of evolution is as much a religion as Christianity. They are both based on faith. After all, the scientific method is based mostly on observation.”

    Science doesn’t believe in a spirit in the sky or magic. They believe, and so far have been able to show, that most everything has a natural explanation. Science makes a hypothesis about something and then attempts to find facts to support it. No facts…the hypothesis goes away. If you can make predictions about your hypothesis, and find those predictions are true…then your hypothesis is likely true. Religion starts out with their Book and tries to make evidence to support it. Because it is supposedly ‘The Word of God’ is has to be true from the get-go. Trouble is many, many things are turning out to be not true. And finding new evidence and changing your mind because of solid evidence is a good thing. No solid evidence for lots of things that the Bible asserts.

    Barely scratched the surface here, but it’s late in my time zone and tomorrow is Monday. Look forward to corresponding with you. 🙂
    Bill

  3. Greg says:

    I find this whole subject fascinating, probably because of the mystery of it all.

    As a physician, I’m not entirely satisfied with either “side” of the arguments regarding Neanderthals, evolution, and a worldwide flood. So much we can’t directly observe or prove (unlike bacteria multiplying in a petri dish, for instance).

    I am sympathetic to the above post that evolution also requires a certain amount of “faith” that the evidence in the geologic record validates a particular hypothesis.

  4. Dave says:

    >I have come to believe that the theory of evolution is as much a religion as Christianity. They are both based on faith.After all, the scientific method is based mostly on observation.Because it has already been dicovered that strata has been overturned countless times, we don’t know for sure what the bottom strata is for a fact.<

    This is completely untrue.

    <Every day, evolutionist change their theory due to new discoveries which contradict old results the scripture are written in stone and don’t change. <

    WIshful thinking – people have been killing themselves for centuries over the meaning of scripture. Wars between Christian sects have flared across Europe, and scriptures justified the invasion of the Middle East, not just during the Crusades, but by President George Bush, beginning in 2001 and continuing to this day.

    When we give up belief in a god, everything begins to make sense. And the need to twist scientific evidence, and/or the refutation of scientific evidence, is no longer necessary.

  5. Dave says:

    >I am sympathetic to the above post that evolution also requires a certain amount of “faith” that the evidence in the geologic record validates a particular hypothesis.<

    I respectfully disagree. There is no need for faith to validate evidence in the geologic record. The way we validate is with evidence, and evidence alone. Faith may coincide with reality, but faith can go against reality, can contradict evidence. That is, in fact, the point of having faith – evidence is not required.

    We are only confirming what we know about processes that once were thought to be the visible handiwork of a god – we understand the mechanism for the formation of the planet itself, and we understand processes of erosion, uplift, continental drift, subduction, etc., that have created the Grand Cnayon, Yosemite Valley, the Steppes of Central Asia, and the bottom of the sea.

    Nothing in the geologic record, then, refutes the Theory of Evolution. So for, the geologic record has only helped confirm if. If evidence exists otherwise, show it.

  6. thewordofme says:

    Hi Greg, thank you for writing.

    I’m sorry to take so long to answer, but we had a death in the family and had to travel out of state for awhile

    You write:
    “As a physician, I’m not entirely satisfied with either “side” of the arguments regarding Neanderthals, evolution, and a worldwide flood. So much we can’t directly observe or prove (unlike bacteria multiplying in a petri dish, for instance).”

    I am assuming that when you say ‘physician’ you are talking about a medical degree. I find it hard to understand someone who studied real medicine believing in magic and the supernatural. If you believe in the Christian God…or others for that matter… you have to accept that magic/the supernatural…is true. There is no other position on the matter.

    We do not have to directly observe a murder to prove it circumstantially. Darwin was right and his work has been proven over and over again.

    The “Fact of Evolution” evidence grows every day. As a scientist you must know how scientific “theories” work. As a physician you must know about biology…do you deny the knowledge is true and cannot relate to your work and understanding of the human body?

    The evidence for Neanderthals is deniable only by those who reject science.

    The evidence for there being no “Adam and Eve” is overwhelming…it is proven by DNA. Do you reject the science behind DNA?

    Noah’s flood is totally and thoroughly disproven. There is not one bit of evidence for it that cannot be disproved by science. You have to reject major scientific study by many, many disciplines to believe the ‘flood’ is true.

    You write:
    “I am sympathetic to the above post that evolution also requires a certain amount of “faith” that the evidence in the geologic record validates a particular hypothesis.”

    Science requires no “faith” at all. It is proven every day. Theories about the natural world, or some small part of it, can be proven or disproven by experimental study…just as medicine can be proven or disproven by study and experiment.

    I think one must be intellectually lazy to believe in religion, as it can be effectually challenged and proven to be untrue.
    twom

    • Wendy says:

      Science proves the Bible true and macroevolution false.

      Please read the mutitude articles in Institute for Creation Research. Answers in Genesis, and now we have the Human Genome and DNA studies which prove human origins about 6000 years ago, and three branches, at the time of a world wide flood, and even how human beings were scattered after the Town of Babel. The true scientists who study DNA publish their findings and voila they all can be married very well to the BIble, even though the Human Genome study and DNA groups are independent of the Bible or any creationist groups.

      The evidence around the world for geology and the location and preservation of many of the fossils can best be explained by a global flood. The following glacial age explains a lot too. But most formations cannot be logically explained by slow-moving glaciers over vast periods of time, but by rushing catostrophic waters over a much shorter time. I have seen this at every museum I’ve been to.

      Macroevolution only exists because of the arrogance and wishful thinking of atheists who unfortunateluy have hijacked science and deceived many. Macroevolution is a fairy tale much larger then the Christian faith. CHristian faith is based on evidence of history, archeaology, geology, biology, and the witness of many people in many generations. Most of the people and cultures and locations have all been found. Macroevolution was a fantastic idea when it first came out, but subsequently has been disproved by almost everything properly understood. It is shameful that ancient history is no longer taught in schools in oder to make macroevolution at least possibly be believed.

      If all ancient cultures write and draw pictures of dinosaurs and tell stories about people’s interactions with them, I think that they must have co-existed. If all ancient cultures have extremely similar stories about worldwide flood, I think it happened. Ancient cultures also have calendars and chornologies going back between 5000-10,000 years, so I think that is how old the earth is. Ancient history testifies to the truth. Macroevolutionists suppress everyone’s truths with their lies.

      Now most evolutionist discoveries have laver been proven to be frauds, but that is hidden. True science proves the age of the earth is in the thousands because of exrapolating back the earth’s distance from the sun. (If millions of years, the sun would have burned-up the earth!) DNA studies prove that macroevolution between species is impossible. Population statistics go with thousands of years. If millions, where are all the people and animals? There should be a lot more. How come dinosaur fossils are being found with flesh and blood! They can’t be more then a few thousands of years old. If deceit to create evidence and suppression of most evidence is the only way to get people to believe in macroevolution. How shameful! Censorship of facts and teaching of myths. With internet and more and more and more evidence being uncovered, macroevolution will have to crumble. The truth can no longer be suppressed. The lies can no longer go unchallenged.

  7. the word of me says:

    Wendy, thanks for writing.

    Are you really serious about what you are saying here…do you want a reply from me pointing out how bad you have misinterpreted the science?

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