Do you Believe in a Trinity?

It seems all of the evidence for a trinity in the Bible…is man’s interpretation, as the Bible does not state this in certain, terms. It is not established beyond doubt or question. Well some sect’s believe they have, but they haven’t.

However, in the matter of the Son/Jesus being a separate entity of the God/Father, the Bible is perfectly clear. It minces no words and flat-out says, many times, that Jesus is the SON of God. Occam’s razor needs to be applied here. Stop going through all of the theological nonsense and read the words that ARE there, not what someone is interpolating = “Insert words into texts, often falsifying it thereby”

Mat 3:17 and lo a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, you are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only Begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his hand.

1 John 4:9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

John 5:18 On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.

John 5:19 Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner.

John 5:20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, in order that YOU may marvel.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to.

John 5:22 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son

John 5:23 in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

John 5:25 Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live.

John 5:26 for just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself.

John 5:30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 8:58 “…. (Jesus) Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” Jesus meant he existed in heaven with the Father before Abraham was born.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:1 These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?

When Christians pray, they pray to the Father in the name of Jesus, by the grace of the son, while acknowledging that the Father is God.

Everyday Christian prayer evidences that there is no Trinity.

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About the word of me
Interested in family and friends,grandchildren, photography, darkrooms, history, archaeology, scuba diving, computers, software, fast cars, journalism, writing, travel, ecology, news, science, and probably most other subjects you could think of. Did I mention family and friends?? I require iced tea or cold brewed coffee and a internet connection to be fully functional. Sometimes there are just so many words in my head they spill out.

18 Responses to Do you Believe in a Trinity?

  1. lauren says:

    Christians pray through Jesus, the Son of God (yet fully God), because He is our mediator. Before Christ died on the cross and rose three days later, people had to go to a high priest to confess their sins and give sacrifices. Since the crucifixion and resurrection, believers no longer have to give sacrifices (b/c Jesus was the propitiation for our sins) and we no longer have to go to a high priest because Jesus is our high priest. So the reason why we pray to God the Father through the Son is because it is through him that we are able to communicate with the father. Without Jesus’ sacrifice it would not be possible.

  2. thewordofme says:

    Hi Lauren,
    Thank you for your reply.

    OK, after Jesus died the ‘Mother Church’ (Roman Catholicism), was all there was to Christianity. There was no other religious organization allowed. This held true until the time of Luther in the 1500’s, I believe.

    So for 1,500 years you had to go to the Catholic priest to confess your sins and sacrifice your Hail Mary’s, etc. And, if you were a young man, fend off the priest perhaps. Anyway they prayed through the mediation of Mary. Confession was Dogma of the church.

    Down through time…Christianity…has changed significantly. It has taken two thousand years of constant adjustment and fiddling with scripture and history to arrive where YOU are now.
    Try reading real history with no prejudices in mind. It (history) is not some massive conspiracy to mislead humanity.

    Before 325 AD there was no ‘trinity’, Bible doesn’t mention it; it is a man made artificial construct.

  3. lauren says:

    well…yes Luther did lead the reformation against the Catholic church and i am glad that he did that. because the Catholic church was corrupting Christianity…no where in the Bible does it say that Mary is Holy or that we need to pay money for our sins to be forgiven and no where in the Bible does it mention a pergatory…

    the Bible never uses the word “trinity” of that i am aware. but it does say many things that made man come up with the term…

    Genesis 1:26- “And God said, ‘Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness…”

    or when Jesus said in John 10:30 “I and the Father are one” (granted there is no mention of the HS in this verse but Jesus still claims to be as much God as the Father is)

    Matthew 28:19- “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”

    Paul also references the idea of the trinity in 2 Corinthians 13:14 – “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the HS be with you all.”

    it’s amazing to see throughout Scripture the relationship between the Father, Son, and HS. The Father serves the Son; the Son serves the Father; Father and Son defer to the HS, who in turn, serves and defers to the Father and Son in a oneness that is eternally dynamic.

    there’s more i can say on this but i do not have the time at the moment and i don’t really think anything i can say will change your mind about the trinity (but i hope it does)

  4. thewordofme says:

    Hi Lauren,
    Thank you for taking your time to write.

    So admittedly, after the beginning of the Christian sect we humans still had to go to the high priest for about 1,500 years to confess our sins.

    Thank you for coming up with the scripture points you quoted. I think if you contemplate them you will see that they are ambiguous and do not plainly say what one might expect if the Bible was really serious about the trinity.

    The ones I quote in the post that started this whole line of conversation are not ambiguous. Jesus flat out says that He and the Father are separate entities. There is no quibbling or dubious ‘meanings’ to interpret. Would you rather take Jesus’ word for it, or some high priests?

    If one believes in Biblical inerrancy you must be consistent. None of this; well here is says what it means, and here it says this, but really means something else. Protestant sects are still using lots of the Catholic interpretations of Scripture. They are clearly wrong.

    If God where giving us His word in the Bible, don’t you think He would clearly say what He means?

    None of this mumbo-jumbo; well, you need us priests to interpret the ‘true’ meaning.

    Of course I could be wrong…but, THEY might be wrong too.

  5. lauren says:

    i do not go by what high priests tell me. i go by what i see when i look at and study Scripture.

    the trinity is a hard concept to grasp and i definitely do not understand it. i know that this is probably what you want to hear but it’s the truth. i cannot FULLY understand the idea of the trinity. three persons completely separate yet completely the same? i know it sounds stupid but my faith is that it is true. One God. Three Persons. i think to believe in the trinity you NEED faith because our human minds cannot comprehend it.

    but thats just it. our HUMAN minds cannot comprehend everything that GOD can. so i take Jesus’ word for it. i believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all separate and yet all fully God in one.

    without faith and without Christ no one can believe in this or in anything the Bible says for that matter (unless it’s proven somewhere else).

  6. thewordofme says:

    Hi Lauren–Just a short note.

    “because our human minds cannot comprehend it.”
    No human can understand it because it is not true… it’s made up by priests wanting to gain a power over the flock.

    Jesus clearly says on many occasions that He and the Father are NOT one.

    John 5:30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

    “Not my own will…but the will of him that sent me” How plain is that?

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    “his only begotten son” Father+Son=2
    How easy is that to figure?

  7. lauren says:

    i already said this but i’ll say it again…it’s amazing to see throughout Scripture the relationship between the Father, Son, and HS. The Father serves the Son; the Son serves the Father; Father and Son defer to the HS, who in turn, serves and defers to the Father and Son in a oneness that is eternally dynamic.

    yes, Jesus said that He cannot do anything of His own initiative and that He saught the Father’s will. couldn’t that be because if Jesus went against the Father then He would go against God/Himself. i know that is confusing but that is how my mind works.

    how can it be “priests wanting to gain power over the flock” when the disciples/apostles referred to the sense of the triune family not long after Jesus’ resurrected.

    Paul wrote many times in Galations speaking of the Father, Son, and HS (Gal 3:13-14; 4:6; 5:5-6, 22-24). In Romans he used a trinitarian pattern to describe the plan for salvation (Rom 1:18-3:30;…). In fact the only books in the NT that do not mention the “trinity” are James and 3 John. but you cannot say that that is an inconsistency b/c the idea of the trinity wasn’t what James and John were focusing on in those epistles.

    “The triune family is God’s revelation of Himself as the ultimate truth about reality. This family is the original pattern from which God creates all the families of earth with their unity and diversity. The family of mankind, after losing its intimate relationship with the divine family at the Fall, is restored to fellowship by God’s action. This happens when its members acknowledge the generosity originating in the Father, expressed by the Son, and energized by the Holy Spirit.”

    3 separate persons. all fully God.

  8. thewordofme says:

    Hi again Laurel. Thanks for your reply.

    The words that were quoted to you; were they not the words of Jesus? It doesn’t matter what the main subject of John’s writing was…he was ‘quoting’ Jesus.

    John 5:30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

    And here, is not Mathew telling about a voice from heaven…God…talking about His Son?

    Mat 3:17 and lo a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    You write:
    “The triune family is God’s revelation of Himself as the ultimate truth about reality.”

    God doesn’t reveal a trinity anywhere in the Bible.

    Encyclopedia Britannica says: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed. the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance with the Father’. Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”

    You write:
    “yes, Jesus said that He cannot do anything of His own initiative and that He saught the Father’s will. couldn’t that be because if Jesus went against the Father then He would go against God/Himself. i know that is confusing but that is how my mind works.”

    Why would Jesus, if in fact he was God, seek Gods guidance as if He were a separate entity?

    The trinity is just old folklore passed on for 1700 years.
    Churches would have a hard time explaining it if they recognized the truth now, so they keep it alive.

    By the way, a Holy Spirit is not a ‘person’ The word…spirit…is the clue 🙂

  9. lauren says:

    for the record…you are not going to persuade me that the trinity does not exist or that Jesus is not God, etc. i know these things to be true and i pray that one day you will too.

    i do have one more question about what you said though. why would they make something like that up and pass it on for 1700 years as you say?

    the first place in the Scriptures where mention of more than one ‘person’ (but still one God) is in Genesis. which was more than 1700 years ago.

  10. thewordofme says:

    Hi Lauren.
    Wouldn’t dream of changing you. Just throwing some relevant info out there for you to think about

    Job security my dear 🙂

    You write:
    “the first place in the Scriptures where mention of more than one ‘person’ (but still one God) is in Genesis. which was more than 1700 years ago.”

    According to currant Christian fundamentalist theology, about 6,000 years ago.

    Could you tell me where to find this reference? The Jews who are supposedly monotheistic (one God-no trinity) would not, and still do not, write of such things. The belief in a trinity did not come into existence until after Jesus…well after. And the Jews never had it.

  11. lauren says:

    Genesis 1:26- “And God said, ‘Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness…”

    why would God use those words if that isn’t what He meant

  12. thewordofme says:

    Hi Lauren,

    God was talking with the Angels he had already created according to Jewish Midrash.

    Perhaps he had already created his spirit Son in heaven. The Jews at the time of the writing of the Pentateuch DID NOT believe in a trinity, they had no concept of this…ask your minister.

    Also, the words you quote do not mention a trinity…or threeness…just more than one.

    Wonder who it was…Elohim or Yahweh?

  13. lauren says:

    Why would God be talking with the Angels? Angels were created to glorify God. They were not created in God’s image and they were not equal with God. (That is why when Lucifer led the other angels against God, God ‘won’ and sent Lucifer and his followers out of heaven–these are now known as demons).

    Ok. Let’s just stop using that term for right now…There is God the Father. There is God the Son. and there is God the Holy Spirit.

    God is God. Jesus claims to be God and God acknowledges His deity. the Holy Spirit is called God (2 Sam 23:2-3; Acts 5:3-4; 1 Cor 3:16). The HS possesses God’s attributes:
    1. Omniscience: 1 Cor 2:10-11
    2. Omnipresence: Psalm 139:7-10
    3. Omnipotence: Luke 1 :35
    4. Eternity: Hebrews 9:14
    5. Love: Romans 15:30
    6. Holiness: Ephesians 4:30
    7. Truth: 1 John 5:6

    And the Holy Spirit performs the works of God.
    1. Creation: Gen 1:2; Job 26:13
    2. Regeneration: John 3:3, 5-8
    3. Sanctification of Believers: 2 Thess 2 :13
    4. Conception of Christ in Mary: Luke 1:35
    5. Conviction of Sin: John 16:8

    I realize that the word ‘trinity’ was made-up by men. I believe I have already stated that. But that does not mean that the concept from which they derived that term is also made-up. Throughout the Bible the working together of the Father, Son, and Spirit is clearly seen. And they all pay reverence to each other showing that they are all FULLY God.

  14. thewordofme says:

    Hi Lauren, welcome back.

    Angels were not created to ‘glorify God’ they were Gods workers. They guarded gates (who knows from what) schlepped messages back and forth for God and other…gods?

    Why does God need all these ‘glorifiers’ around? Did you ever wonder about that? Do..or did you ever need or want people or Angels around to constantly ‘glorify’ and kiss your behind—in an allegorical sense of course. 🙂

    We here on earth don’t know when the Angels were created. They seem to be self aware if you believe the stories about them. So they have intelligence, and apparently can carry on a conversation, so I imagine God would talk to them

    So who do you think God was talking to?? Lucifer maybe? Lucifer was an Angel created by God.

    He apparently had other people/gods/things, there with Him/Her.
    The Holy Spirit doesn’t seem to be a creature of substance of any kind…just a ghost…of what?

    As I have already pointed out in Scripture before, Jesus acknowledges that the Father is greater than himself. Also he does not know the time of the end; only the father knows.

    You say:
    ”I realize that the word ‘trinity’ was made-up by men. I believe I have already stated that. But that does not mean that the concept from which they derived that term is also made-up. Throughout the Bible the working together of the Father, Son, and Spirit is clearly seen. And they all pay reverence to each other showing that they are all FULLY God.”

    There was no Christian Bible at the time of Jesus. All they had was the Pentateuch, It had no concept of the trinity in it…None.

    Later they had the writings of Paul, after the death of Jesus…still no concept of the trinity.

    Then they had the writings of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John…still no concept of the trinity.

    Then in 325 AD they had the Nicene Council…then there was a concept of the trinity. There is some evidence that Emperor Constantine (who was not a Christian) had a hand in formulating it.

    Then the only Christian Church on earth was formally begun. And ‘men’ began their exegesis on the Scriptures.

    The New Testament of course has no mention of trinity, but the boys in the back room were making up the ‘apologetics’
    To explain that there was now a trinity,

  15. Daniel Ginther says:

    Wow, you got it right. not because of your love for the word of God, but none the less, what you have discovered is that the trinity is a lie and came about from the council of Nicene. Up until that time, all Christians knew Jesus Christ was the son of God, not God himself.

    As for Laurens quote : Genesis 1:26- “And God said, ‘Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness…

    Remember, the King James Bible was translated by men who believed in the trinity. The writers unfortunately injected that belief into some scripture. It does not mean the King James Bible is bad in any way, on the contrary, for example, the addition of paragraphs has made it a lot easier for study.

    One important lesson for Lauren to learn is that if there are 100 scriptures stating that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and 10 that refer him to be God, well you can discern that the 100 that claim him to be the son of God are correct.
    If Jesus Christ were God, that would make me, as a born again Christian, God to, and I can assure you, I am not God.

    The trinity sure is a touchy subject because of how modern day Christianity pounds it into your head. We Christians need to believe as the first century church did, One God, and his loving son Jesus Christ.

  16. Daniel Ginther says:

    One other thing that is important. The word ‘The’ is an addition to the King James Bible.
    Once again the translators added something that should not be there. They make it read like there is a separate entity or being or whatever called The Holy Sprit when rightfully it should be referred to as holy spirit, no capitalization either.

    Hope this clears up a little confusion anyways.

  17. thewordofme says:

    Hi Daniel Ginther, thanks for writing.

    I’ve been trying to tell people that the trinity is lousy theology for forty years.

    Your attitude about the KJV and probably others points you may have for all the sects out there, is one of the big tip-offs that your religion is phony. The Christians are too at odds with each other, they can’t agree on the dogma, they can’t agree on sooo many things. Man made, not God made. twom

  18. thewordofme says:

    Hi Again Daniel Ginther,

    ALL of the Christian Scripture has been edited; some remove things, some add things. Since it was all written by uninspired Hebrews…and then by a wandering Jew that was trying to start a new job position for himself.

    Do you really think Jesus spoke to Paul in ‘a beam of light’ on the road to Damascus?

    There is way too much stuff in the Bible that doesn’t add up…or make sense. So many things have been dis-proven about it. twom

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