Jesus is…God?
May 12, 2008 10 Comments
Hi Idugan, how very nice to hear from you. Thank you for your reply.
I had to put this on a regular post, I could not get the reply pane to copy properly.
>>>First, of all Jesus is Holy because He IS God.<<<
Now you see, that is one of the things that is very confusing. Jesus was a created being. If my mom and dad have a child…that child is a creation…of my parents. If God creates a being such as Jesus or Satan…these are “children” of God…as are we. We are not our parents. And why would there be no mention of trinity for a hundred or so years after the death of Jesus? This whole trinity thing really smells. I’m sorry to be so blunt. But, as you may have heard a hundred times already, I believe Paul, or the Catholic Church, or both, made up the trinity.
If this trinity turns out to be true (Jesus being God), does this seal-the-deal that God is male? Not to be Sacrilegious, but didn’t Jesus go around kissing Mary Magdalene?
>>>Satan and his followers (“demons”) were thrown out of heaven after trying to say they were “better” than God. Third, the Holy Spirit, also, IS God…not created by God…and that is why He is holy.<<<
Now why would an “Angel” go around saying or thinking (remember God knows your heart) stupid things like that? Apparently Angels are intelligent. Does it make sense that a created, most likely very intelligent, being would think he was better than his creator? Remember this is someone who is (or was) actually in the presence of God. An insider so to speak, one who…EVERY DAY…sees/saw the actual, LITERAL power of GOD in person.
This sounds to me, very much like a human creation. An attempt to create a dramatic scenario, describing something that WE have no possible idea or understanding of. Again, to be blunt…this is a bad story line. Holy spirit always seemed to me to be a phenomenon that humans experienced, not a ‘person or thing.’
>>>God is behind everything. He upholds and sustains EVERYTHING. So he is behind every birth, every breath, every storm, every step, every death. It’s all in His plan. (Paul, a mere human, cannot TELL God to DO anything…)<<<
If in fact God was intimately involved with us humans…I could believe…maybe…that this might be true. I see a possible God making the universe (ours) 14 billion or so years ago and moving on to other things. Why on earth would a GOD want to mess around on the scale of us humans and our petty disputes and killing each other? This is just logic. A God who creates whole universes has better things to do. He’s probably in another dimension, creating new universes? 🙂
We humans are way too egotistical in thinking a GOD would care about petty human problems. And the religious leaders have an imagination problem; they can’t seem to get a real image of a REAL GOD in their mind well enough to see what a God would actually be like. The story as told now…is childish…it envisions a very petty and small God.
The sin and redemption shtick is getting very old. Spirits in the sky and evil demons went out many, many years ago. Have you ever experienced one? None of the people I know or have known have ever seen one. I don’t expect to either.
Did you ever notice that God doesn’t go around killing men, women, and children in the New Testament? He, or whoever was writing about Him, stopped reporting on His bad temper and bad habits.
Again Idugan thanks for replying. I value your comments.
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You’re correct: the Trinity is difficult to comprehend. CS Lewis did a pretty good job (in my book) of shedding a little light on the subject. Take a look here. http://ldolphin.org/CSLtrinity.html Here’s a bit that speaks directly to this question of begottenness versus createdness.
“Now that is the first thing to get clear. What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man. What God creates is not God; just as what man makes is not man. That is why men are not Sons of God in the sense that Christ is. They may be like God in certain ways, but they are not things of the same kind. They are more like statues or pictures of God.”
There is a theological difficulty – idolatry, in fact – if Christians worship Jesus if one assumes that Jesus is not God. One worships the Creator, not creatures or creation. It’s textbook idolatry to do otherwise. Jesus tells us (particularly in John) that he is God. “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.” “I and the Father are one.” All of the “Ego eimi” (“I am”) statements.
But this has been commonly understood since the early church. The bigger problem that most people had in understanding the trinity is the Holy Spirit aspect.
Church historiography is intriguing.
Hi again Robaigh, thanks for your reply.
>>You’re correct: the Trinity is difficult to comprehend.<<
I would say ‘impossible’ is a better descriptive.
No matter how hard I have tried, I cannot believe any of the explanations for this matter…It seems to be Doublespeak.
Yeah, I’ll buy “impossible.” It seems graspable, but then slips away like a bar of wet soap.
I don’t think it’s Doublespeak proper (black is white, up is down), but language is certainly inadequate at explaining the Trinity.
I don’t have any time right now but I did want to bring your attention to Acts 5 about your statement that God doesn’t kill anyone in the NT…
v.1-11
“But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and with his wife’s knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, ‘Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?…You have not lied to men but to God.’ When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last….After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. And Peter said to her, ‘Tell me whether you sold the land for so much.’ And she said, ‘Yes, for so much.’ But Peter said to to her, ‘How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.’ Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last…”
I know you probably are going to twist this to say something about how could a loving God kill people like you have so many times, but I just wanted to show you that you should probably research things fully…I have more to say but not enough time.
Hey Idugan,
I am not a God…I can’t be perfect and right all the time. 🙂
Thanks for pointing that out to me. I will research further.
When I have pointed out that God has killed millions of people, I don’t think I have twisted the story…The most disturbing parts to me are the bashing of babies against the walls and slicing through with sword, tens if not hundreds of thousands of children.
Quote from your write-up:
“Jesus was a created being. If my mom and dad have a child…that child is a creation…of my parents. If God creates a being such as Jesus or Satan…these are “children” of God…as are we. We are not our parents. And why would there be no mention of trinity for a hundred or so years after the death of Jesus? This whole trinity thing really smells. ”
Hi
I agree with you.
The truth is that Jesus was not God; he never proclaimed as such, there are no direct quotes from him in this regards. God talked with Jesus and revealed His word on him, He chose Jesus his Messenger/Prophet/Messiah, Jesus was not a son of God.
Jews did not believe that Jesus was a true Moshiach or Prophet of God and to prove that they tried to kill him by putting him on cross, Jesus became unconscious due to the injuries inflicted on him. He was delivered from cross alive and placed in a room like tomb where he was treated for the injuries.
This was done secretly lest the Jews again torture him. Afterwards, he went to spread the gospel to the remaining ten tribes of the House of Israel, he died a natural death later at some point in the history.
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What you said is not true parrsurrey. Jesus’ wounds were so severe he would have had to have died. To make sure of this, they speared him. Also, they had Roman soldiers guard the tomb. It would have hurt the Roman government for a rumor of Jesus rising from the dead happen so they were not going to let that happen. But Jesus did rise from the dead and was seen by over 500 witnesses.
Hi Justin,
Yea, and he walked around for forty days.
Hi
In my opinion, it is only a general statement of the scribes without listing the persons who had seen and witnessed the event. May be it is more of a cover up that Jews don’t search for Jesus and torture him again.
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