What Trinity?

So I can’t seem to find any references to the trinity in the Bible. I can’t even find any ambiguous mumbo-jumbo type sentences that today’s evangelical fundamentalists seem to use in their attempt to confuse me, and the general public.

John 12:48-50 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.” (Jesus speaking at Last Supper).

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever (Jesus speaking at Last Supper)

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (Also Jesus speaking at Last Supper)

John 15:9-10 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. (Says Jesus) All KJV quotes

That darn Jesus and His people. They just don’t seem to get the idea. Somehow we’ve got to get word to Him and His followers that we’ve updated the theology. Jesus just can’t seem to understand that He is also God and the Holy Spirit. He keeps speaking in the improper tense and Denying that He is God.

Random stuff
In the mid 1200’s, St. Bonaventure, a Doctor of the Church and Minister General of the Franciscan Order, argued that God had provided humans with as much knowledge as they needed to live the proper Christian life. “To investigate by reason beyond the point of adequate knowledge, is to move away from divine wisdom and be guilty of curiositas.”

This pretty much sums up religions attitude towards science. “We don’t want too much knowledge floating around.”

So ALL or MOST all of the Holy Scripture was handled and passed down by the Catholic Church. They had practically absolute control of Biblical literature for about 1300 years. All secular history of The Roman Catholic Church points to it being a very evil institute. It was a ‘for profit church’ and they killed and/or tortured people that didn’t believe the line they were passing down. You could buy ‘indulgences’ which absolved you of the sin of your actions. Also, I really doubt that the fairly recent uncovering of rampant pedophilia in the Church is just a modern phenomenon, and I doubt that it was practiced in just a few churches.

So, should we trust that the Holy Work/Scripture, the true unblemished ‘Word,’ and the proper way to worship and think about God were passed unchanged through such an evil institution? I for one have many doubts about this, and I wonder what…if anything…convinced God that the Catholic Church was trustworthy for this challenge?

Individually the Catholics are good people, at least the ones I have meet. I haven’t had the misfortune to meet anyone from the Mafia, or Columbian and Mexican drug lords, who all seem to be baptized Catholics. I have seen, in passing, some priests that were later shown to be pedophiles. Don’t they still absolve these people of their sins in confession?

I don’t know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn’t. Jules Renard, French writer, 1864-1910

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About the word of me
Interested in family and friends,grandchildren, photography, darkrooms, history, archaeology, scuba diving, computers, software, fast cars, journalism, writing, travel, ecology, news, science, and probably most other subjects you could think of. Did I mention family and friends?? I require iced tea or cold brewed coffee and a internet connection to be fully functional. Sometimes there are just so many words in my head they spill out.

4 Responses to What Trinity?

  1. yisraelite says:

    The Trinity is a christian doctrine. The Romans killed the first and second century followers of Yahushua the messiah. The catholic and all people who call themself christian dont even know what they are in. The romans have mixed pagan sun-worship with the messianic faith. The Roman Catholic never had the right to be the leader. The First leader of the messianic faith was Yaaqob, named as James in the Scriptures. The so-called ‘Church Fathers’ has talked about him being the leader at Jerusalem, and the Gospel of Thomas, founded some years ago , is written that Yahushua(so-called jesus-meaning is Je=Hail ,Sus=Zeus from Latin Iesous) says to the apostle that James have to be their leader after he go’s, when they asked him who got to be their leader. The leader never had to be out of Israel, the romans killed all the leaders after James , and they decided to be so-called, ‘Head of Church’. I.E POPE.

    But people are waking up now, they are even loosing members in latin america. You could read this book that is in Blogrol in my page,’Come out of her my people’
    Its about the pagan sun-worship mixed in the messianic faith.

    -Yisraelite
    yisraelite.wordpress.com
    -my page is going to be about all these lies of christianity and truth of the messianic faith. The truth is christianity is just an religion made by romans. They have changed the way of life of the first century Apotle’s and followers of Yahushua the Messiah with unclean pagan gods. Vatican even has the Obelisk of Egypt. I read the book on my page u wil realize that the romans just mixed the tradition of Egypt with the messianic faith, the Obelisk that they have just prove that they where and must still be obsessed with the Egypt pagan tradition. The Cross, The Bible have pure gold around and have lock, and some of them have the pages full of gold, that comes from tradition of egypt.

  2. Cody says:

    The most obvious reference to the Trinity is the Baptismal formula in Matthew 28:19: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” It was this formula which the Church Fathers used as a primary argument in favor of the Trinity.

    Re: Bonaventure. Don’t be like a Fundamentalist Baptist and quote things out of their context. From the Fathers, espcially Augustine, through the (Muslim) Arabics like Avicenna and Averroes, through the Scholastics like Aquinas, Bonaventura, Duns Scotus et al, the Church’s theologians have not been opposed to science or learning. Hardly. In fact, many of their endeavors in epistemology, health science, optics, etc. we would call scientific, at least in a loose meaning of the word. The Scholastics generally followed the method of Aristotle, whereas our modern day “scientific method” (which is far superior to the Greeks) was formulated by Descartes.

    “Curiositas” was not an opposition to knowledge, but knowledge with a terminus in itself rather than the worship of God. But the “worship of God” was seen to the Doctors, Fathers, and Scholastics as being a disposition of one’s whole life, not a few liturgical acts on Sunday.

    Re: Evil Catholic Church

    Although members of the Church, including its leaders, have done bad things (from the Apostles onward), it has never been the position of the Church that its infallibility (on matters of faith and morals only) is affected by its members’ peccadilloes. That being said, it can certainly hurt its credibility (who’s going to listen to the Church’s sexual teachings when there are sexually deviant priests?) That’s the meaning of the word “scandal” in Catholic theology.

    Re: Pedophile priests, absolution of evil men.

    Pedophiles exist in all sectors of society and all religious and secular communities. The Catholic Church is no exception. And with regards to the absolution of such evil men in confession, if the Church refused to absolve them just because they were pedophiles, drug lords, etc, that would defeat the purpose, right, of absolving sins? Keep in mind that, in Catholic Theology, a person must repent of ALL wrong doing (not just some wrong doing) and genuinely resolve never to sin again (even the smallest sin) in order for absolution to be valid. The priests words are not magic. In the end, God forgives us based only on whether or not we are genuinely repentant.

  3. thewordofme says:

    Hi Cody, I appreciate your writing a reply.

    “The most obvious reference to the Trinity is the Baptismal formula in Matthew 28:19: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” It was this formula which the Church Fathers used as a primary argument in favor of the Trinity.”

    It is probably the only one that came close to a thought of trinity. That doesn’t even come close to explaining something that never was.

    “Re: Bonaventure. Don’t be like a Fundamentalist Baptist and quote things out of their context.”

    I apologize, but it does directly related to evangelical, fundamentalist thought today. I do realize that the Catholic Church, in particular, has supported science far more than any other religion…in fact they are probably the leaders in admitting (though not from the pulpit) that science is probably right in what they are finding nowadays.

    “Curiositas” was not an opposition to knowledge, but knowledge with a terminus in itself rather than the worship of God. But the “worship of God” was seen to the Doctors, Fathers, and Scholastics as being a disposition of one’s whole life, not a few liturgical acts on Sunday.”

    Science in itself is the terminus of knowledge…or something like that. 🙂 Evangelical fundamentalists are opposed to the collection and distribution of scientific truth to the general public. They also want to control the dissemination of all religious knowledge. What do you think our world would be like if they realized that dream? They would be exactly like the Roman Catholic Church was in the fourth century AD…Catholicism would be outlawed, among other wickedness’s, such as teaching science in the public schools.

    “Pedophiles exist in all sectors of society and all religious and secular communities. The Catholic Church is no exception. And with regards to the absolution of such evil men in confession, if the Church refused to absolve them just because they were pedophiles, drug lords, etc, that would defeat the purpose, right, of absolving sins? Keep in mind that, in Catholic Theology, a person must repent of ALL wrong doing (not just some wrong doing) and genuinely resolve never to sin again (even the smallest sin) in order for absolution to be valid. The priests words are not magic. In the end, God forgives us based only on whether or not we are genuinely repentant.”

    I think Catholic priests may be more susceptible to sexual hijinks than others because of the celibacy thing. Being a man, I have some idea of how strong the sexual urge is. The Catholic Church setup is a breeding ground for sex problems…they need to accept reality and quite hiding behind tradition. I have not seen or found anything that God said to establish celibacy in priests.
    If the Church were to deny absolution to evil-doers, murderers, drug lords, etc., perhaps it would help stem the tide. But, maybe that’s too much to ask from a ‘For Profit” institution. 🙂

    Above all of this talk, is my concern that the Catholic Church was not a good choice in transmitting the Bible and all the letters and Scriptures from the fourth century, to the present.

    Peace

  4. Justin says:

    The word Bible isn’t in the Bible either. The Trinity is a concept when you say all the verses of the Bible are true, you accept that there is one God of three persons.

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