Christians Are Whiners

The Christian complains about an increasingly secular world, but the Republican Party is controlled by right wing evangelical fundamentalists.  No atheists allowed

The Air Force academy in Colorado is run by right wing evangelical fundamentalists. You either bend to what they want or you are an outcast and stand to lose your appointment.

“Evangelical Christians are at it again. The proselytizing only-through-Christ bunch have now taken up desecration of non-Christian religious sites: Not Jews this time but Wiccans. What the hell goes through the minds of these evangelicals who think they can tell other religions—at a military academy no less—what to believe? At their core, evangelicals who despise pluralism are infantile.”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/02/03/christians-desecrate-wiccan-religious-site-at-air-force-academy/

The troops on the ground in Afghanistan and Iraq are of the same family group of fundamentalists and they threaten the lives of atheist troops.

In most of the South and especially throughout the “Bible Belt” you are mostly a social outcast if you don’t fall into the dominant Christian group of your town- i.e. Baptist, Pentecostal, etc.

In the Middle East and Much of Asia if you decline membership in the Islamic religion you are a social outcast to 98 percent or more of the population…if you’re Jewish you are dead-meat.

In China the Christian believing population is exploding so fast the government is scrambling to keep up and control it.

In Australia the churches have access to school classes and it is smiled upon by the government.

So I’m just wondering where the hell Christians are getting this bit about secularism is getting worse and worse.  Maybe in Europe, where it is predicted that nine countries will go atheist in the next few years, but I certainly don’t see it in the rest of the world.

Christians are just a bunch of whiners anyway. 🙂

“None of today’s problems are caused by Atheists – just think about it.” Cobourg Atheists

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God Watches Over Us

Such a loving God watching over us.

“The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked; his wrath towards you burns like a fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times so abominable in his eyes as the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours.” Jonathan Edwards, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God,” preached in his home church… Northampton, Massachusetts in 1741

And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty. Revelation 19:15

“Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity; and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet I will not hear them.” Ezekiel. 8:18

“I will tread them in mine anger, and will trample them in my fury, and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.” Isa. 63:3

“And the people shall be as the burnings of lime, as thorns cut up shall they be burnt in the fire. Hear ye that are far off, what I have done; and ye that are near, acknowledge my might. The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites,” Isa. 33:12-14.

“And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. And they shall go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.” Isa. 66:23, 24

And here I thought we had a loving God looking after us.  🙂

Demons and Devils and Popes, Bishops and Priests

“All the fathers of the church believed in devils. All the saints won their crowns by overcoming devils. All the popes and cardinals, bishops and priests, believed in devils. Most of their time was occupied in fighting devils. The whole Catholic world, from the lowest layman to the highest priest, believed in devils. They proved the existence of devils by the New Testament. They knew that these devils were citizens of hell. They knew that Satan was their king. They knew that hell was made for the Devil and his angels.”

As late as the middle of the sixteenth century, every infant that was baptized was, by that ceremony, freed from a devil. When the holy water was applied the priest said: “I command thee, thou unclean spirit, in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, that thou come out and depart from this infant, whom our Lord Jesus Christ has vouchsafed to call to his holy baptism, to be made a member of his body, and of his holy congregation.” At that time the fathers — the theologians, the commentators — agreed that unbaptized children, including those that were born dead, went to hell.

And these same fathers — theologians and commentators — said: “God is love.”

These babes were pure as Pity’s tears, innocent as their mother’s loving smiles, and yet the makers of our creeds believed and taught that leering, unclean fiends inhabited their dimpled flesh. O, the unscarchable riches of Christianity!

For many centuries the church filled the world with devils — with malicious spirits that caused storm and tempest, disease, accident and death — that filled the night with visions of despair; with prophecies that drove the dreamers mad. These devils assumed a thousand forms — countless disguises in their efforts to capture souls and destroy the church. They deceived sometimes the wisest and the best, made priests forget their vows. They melted virtue’s snow in passion’s fire, and in cunning ways entrapped and smirched the innocent and good. These devils gave witches and wizards their supernatural powers, and told them the secrets of the future.

Millions of men and women were destroyed because they had sold themselves to the Devil.

No man has genius enough to describe the agonies that have been inflicted on innocent men and women because of this absurd belief. How it darkened the mind, hardened the heart, and poisoned life! It made the Universe a madhouse presided over by an insane God.

Think! Why would a merciful God allow his children to be the victims of devils? Why would a decent God allow his worshipers to believe in devils, and by reason of that belief to persecute, torture and burn their fellow-men?

Christians did not ask these questions. They believed the Bible; they had confidence in the words of Christ.

How did your Devil, who was at one time an angel of light, come to sin? There was no other devil to tempt him. He was in perfectly good society — in the company of God — of the Trinity. All of his associates were perfect. How did he fall? He knew that God was infinite, and yet he waged war against him and induced about a third of the angels to volunteer. He knew that he could not succeed; knew that he would be defeated and cast out; knew that he was fighting for failure.

Why did God create those angels, knowing that they would rebel? Why did he deliberately sow the seeds of discord in heaven, knowing that he would cast them into the lake of eternal fire — knowing that for them he would create the eternal prison, whose dungeons would echo forever the sobs and shrieks of endless pain?
Robert Ingersoll late 1800’s

Remember people God never changes and he is a God of love….right….right???

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End Times, Armageddon, Second Coming. etc.

Got to thinking about the ‘End Times’ today (this being Sunday and all) and was wandering how close we were to the fabled ‘Battle of Armageddon.’ all the Christians keep talking about and wishing for. Seems there are still a few items from Biblical prophecy that need to happen before the actual ‘End Times’ are upon us.

“Megiddo was a site of great importance in the ancient world, as it guarded the western branch of a narrow pass and an ancient trade route which connected the lands of Egypt and Assyria. Because of its strategic location at the crossroads of several major routes, Megiddo and its environs have witnessed several major battles throughout history. The site was inhabited from 7000 BC to 500 BC.” From Wikipedia, go: HERE

This little fact about Megiddo’s being occupied 3000 years ( Jericho is even older) before God supposedly created Adam & Eve, makes one wonder, and maybe think that the writers of the Bible were just making up stuff.

“After the destruction of the Beast at the Second Coming of Jesus, the promised Kingdom is set up, in which Jesus and the Saints will rule for a thousand years. Satan is then loosed **”for a season” and goes out to deceive the nations, specifically, Gog and Magog. The army mentioned attacks the Saints in the New Jerusalem, they are defeated by a judgment of fire coming down from Heaven, and then comes the Great White Throne judgment, which includes all of those through the ages and these are cast into the Lake of Fire, which event is also known as the “second death” or Hell.” See Wikipedia HERE

Premillennialism is a doctrine very popular among Evangelical Fundamentalist Protestants in North America. Other premillennial groups include Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Seventh Day Adventists. Premillennialists believe the Second Coming of Christ will be the start of the ‘Millennium’ (the 1000 year period when Jesus (God for you Trinitarians) rules the world). Before this period will come a time of destruction, war and disaster on earth, called the ‘Tribulation’, which will be ended by God defeating evil (Those pesky Russkies maybe, or politicians?) at the battle of Armageddon.

During the ‘Tribulation’ the Antichrist (Satan’s emissary…probably a politician) will torture humanity, and God will go to war against him. The tribulation will end in seven years when God defeats the Antichrist and we will enter the ‘Millennium. One thing to wonder about…why would a omnipotent God take seven years to defeat evil? Another thing that is troubling to me is that some Christians think they will be caught up in a ‘Rapture’ and miss all the Tribulation. Just like the Trinity, the Rapture doesn’t seem to be mentioned in the Bible…and some Christians build a whole church/sect on these things.

Hard core Premillennialists also don’t see much point in Christians trying to improve the world, since God is about to destroy much of it…and then remake it…again…think Noah’s Flood. I could kinda’ see their point here, but since all this is just very weird and wishful thinking, and old myth’s, they really aren’t very good world citizens…and kind of downers to be around socially.

**Whats up with letting Satan loose again…does God have no mercy?

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Many fundamentalist Christians believe that the building of the Third Temple is one of the prerequisites for the second coming of Christ. Some Christian fundamentalists in the United States support arms sales and military aid to Israel in the belief that these actions will help Israel rebuild its Temple and thus bring about the End Times. Critics say the actions of fundamentalist Christians in Israel and Palestine, which includes providing material support for Jewish settlers in what was formerly Palestinian lands, is building dangerous tension in the area. However the Temple Mount is now controlled by Muslim’s, and is considered its most sacred (Dome of the Rock) site, so its unlikely that the Jews will attempt to build a new Temple there for a very long time…if ever.

Well, I think we can count out the fulfilling of this Temple³ prophecy for the immediate future. I don’t think the Muslim’s will give up the site and Israel so far looks like they don’t want to start WWIII.

All this sounds pretty scary, but since there is already lots of doubt about the stories I don’t think I’m going to worry about these Biblical myths very much. And people openly and loudly wishing for the end of the world need to go suck eggs. 🙂

Actually the Battle of Armageddon was fought in 1918, British Christianity…against the Ottoman Empire. We won.

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Religion sucks the life out of…

The early Christian church underwrote scientific investigation to more fully understand the glory of God’s creation. But as soon as science started turning up little things that contradicted Biblical Scripture…the relationship turned chilly. Science however just kept on, bit-by-bit, learning the secrets of our world and universe, what makes things tick, how we can do this…or that.

We can glean much information from bones that are millions of years old. We can and have solved the puzzle of where man/woman came from. We can take peoples DNA and tell whether they committed crimes…or not.

We can tell when civilizations started-and-ended. For better or worse we can manipulate the genes of plants and animals, but then we have been doing that for thousands of years, we just called it something different, and now we can do it faster and in ways that should never have been contemplated. We are sending probes to other planets and moons in our solar system. We are getting better and better at solving the puzzle of life…elsewhere. We are coming closer and closer to creating life itself.

We, as the Human Race, have evolved from semi-apes on African savannas, totally at the mercy of bigger, meaner omnivores and carnivores and chaotic weather conditions…to a race of peoples who very stupidly alter our own world; sometimes in non-reversible ways.

We look to the stars, but crap in our own nest.

Religion reluctantly goes along on this trip, all the while gripping and complaining. We’re doing this or that wrong, every second thing we do is sinful, we need to be under religious control…the world is going to end ‘Soon’ All man/womankind is going to hell…you must live your life as an ascetic so you can live on a cloud, plucking a harp and being bored to death for eternity. If you’re not for Christ, you’re for the Devil. Face it; the world of religion sucks the life…out of life.

So many people live by a book written 2000 years ago, that was meant for a totally different purpose and was talking about people and problems and religion of the time. An enterprising group gets together and makes a scam out of it, and bamboozles billions of souls. “Hey, we can make a lifelong career of this”. The common people think if they live right, tithe to the proper sect and espouse the ‘line’, they will live forever. Poor confused, mind controlled, led by the nose people.

They think they have freedom, they just can’t see how controlled they really are. Politicians and world leaders love religion…it makes people very predictable and easy to control.

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Sunday Sermon Continued

Sunday Sermon Continued

This is a continuation of debate that started here: HERE

Hi Idugan, Welcome back.

Hey, if I could have done half as good as you are when I was in high school…that would have been a miracle.

“Why would man make up a God who is so just, etc? Why would man set up laws for himself that he knew he could not always keep? The idea that man made God up doesn’t make sense. Man naturally HATES God. So why would he make Him up?”

I’m sorry…you consider the Christian God just? How about His unconscionable treatment of Job? Heres an apparently honorable man of God, and God just lets the Devil experiment on him. His family is killed off he looses his land, cattle, he is stricken with boils. All to settle a little wager between God and the Devil. Job isn’t notified of the wager, so he has no idea what is going on. Can you imagine the terror in his soul? Is that a just God?

Men have been making up gods from the beginning of time…thats what we do best. I doubt if there has ever been a society on this earth in all of history who hasn’t had a ‘God’ myth. I don’t think your statement about men naturally hating God is true at all, else why would we humans keep making them up? I don’t hate God, all the people I know do not hate God. I can’t remember ever meeting someone who hated God. Now…not believing…thats another matter.

“ I’m no theologian of any kind. I have only truly been studying Scripture for about a year. I mean I’m only a senior in high school. So I won’t even pretend to have all the answers. I will only tell you what I believe, and I want to fully understand what you do and why. I just thought I should tell you that so you don’t feel like I’m attacking you because that is not my intention.”

Hey, who does have all the answers? Attack away. Just keep it on a civil level…no name calling or personal attacks. I respect you, and expect the same.

What Moses did was not a ‘minor infraction’. He deliberately went against what his God told him to do. The same God who led them out of Egypt. His annoyance with the people should not have gotten to be so big that he would willingly defile God. That is why he was punished. (And that was not the only sin that Moses ever committed.) The reason why these ‘myths’ as you like to call them do not make sense to you is because you are making up excuses. I’m not saying that I understand all of Scripture and every single thing about every story–because I don’t–but i do have faith in God that what is Word says is what happened and that God had a perfectly just reason for doing anything He has ever done.”

If you knew the Jews perhaps you would understand the point about Moses a little better. If you were leading a couple of million kvetching Jews through the hot barren desert, you would truly understand the temperament of Moses. The Jews are not an easygoing people, they complain A LOT. Reread the story of his time in the desert and pay particular attention to the interaction between Moses and the ‘people’ I am not making up excuses about anything…I see valid points of debate. Unlike most students of Christianity, I study with an open mind…I don’t have a preconceived viewpoint and a need to conform to what I know people around me think of the matter.

“I looked at that site that had the supposed contradictions in the Bible. I would just like to say that I read a lot of them and looked them up and I can try to show you that they are not contradictions–but I don’t think you would believe me so I’m not going to unless you ask me specifically to.”

Whatever you think. I have been looking at a number of them myself and I will continue, but most of them remain valid points of contention. I already have someone where I am, that is kind enough to spend time in discussion about them.

“Mans purpose is to glorify God by using the attributes of Himself (love, morals, etc) that He gave us. “Sin”=when I don’t fulfill the purpose/will of God. For example the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20. You say the only ’sin’ you commit is when you ‘occasionally have a bad thought about someone’ or lusted after someone other than your wife. And you know what I have committed sins..lots of them. Let me ask you something though, have you ever told a lie? or lost control of your anger? I have, and that’s why I am so grateful for my salvation.”

Pretty egotistical on Gods part if His purpose in making us was to have us constantly ‘glorify’ Him. Do you really think God needs this constant worshiping and adulation and glorifying? Is this OUR purpose in life? Don’t you think a grown up God would understand that we can love Him without all this drippy glorifying and constant wondering if we are sinning ALL the time?

“you said: “My point in this paragraph, is that people will believe almost anything. And they would rather follow than lead, or buck the establishment. Early Christians and Muslims tapped into that, and our present day leaders, both secular and religious, do the same.”

Don’t you think that you are also a ‘follower’ in your thoughts? I mean you’re not the first one to question the authenticity of the Bible and God.”

I am a follower, as I believe we all are. But in matters of the intellect, I follow where my thoughts lead me. I am not scared that if I get off the beaten track I’ll be cast in hell. The only reason that me and others question the authenticity of any religion, is because they are all open to criticism. We see silliness, made up drama, made up stories, allegory, plain old deception and greed, and other thing that often make no sense as described by followers

““Didn’t Jesus say that his disciples would live to see him return, and he would establish a new Jewish ‘ Kingdom of God’ on earth?” and “Even Jesus was wrong in his prediction.”

If you can show me where Jesus said that then fine. But I could not find it in Scripture. When the disciples asked when he would restore the kingdom Jesus replied that it was not for them to know the time or season (see Acts 1 :6-11 for the Ascension).”

Mathew 24:30-34 He was expecting a Jewish Kingdom of God, because he was Jewish, He was a rabbi, and great believer in the Jewish faith. The Christian faith as we know it today did not really start to evolve until a couple hundred years after the death of Jesus. Well, Paul was preparing the stage.

“The Kingdom of God is referred to frequently in the Tanakh (see 1 Chronicles 1 Chronicles 29:10-12 and Daniel 4:3 for example). It is tied to Jewish understanding that God will intervene to restore the nation of Israel, and return to rule over them. The Kingdom of God was expressly promised to the patriarch and prophet, King David, because he was a man “after God’s own heart” (1 Samuel 13:14, Acts 13:22); and God made the Davidic Covenant with King David, promising him that he would “never lack a man to sit upon His throne, forever” (1 Kings 9:5). From Wikipedia” That prophecy never made it-Bill

“Going back to the sin thing…When we sin we defile God’s creation. If we saw sin how God sees it we would shudder. (Zech 11:8; Ez. 20:43; 2 Cor 7:1). When we sin we rebel against God. A true ‘rebellion’ is when people try to assasinate those in charge and that’s why man did in Genesis 3:5–man wanted to be rid of God and to be like Him. When we sin we show ingratitude. God gives us everything (Life, love, friends, etc) and yet we sin. We rebel against God and yet we expect Him to keep blessing us. [These are some notes I took on a sermon about sin. It was the third in the series and it applies to people who believe it but I thought I would share it anyway.]”

Again with the sin thing. How old are you? Just live your life..and treat other people as you would like to be treated. Stay away from drugs, and when you’re old enough, treat alcohol with respect. If you find a woman you love, love her with all your heart, never cheat on her, and treat her with total respect. Follow these concepts and you really won’t have much to worry about. You keep worrying about sin so much and it will distort your brain…maybe make it explode. 🙂

Have a great life. I envy you your youth and promise.