Metal Working Before God Created The Earth??

If you believe in a evangelical fundamentalist God

What in modern times is the country Armenia, was in ancient times a very valuable resource for mankind…it is thought that much of mans knowledge of metallurgy was gained here around the ancient city of Metsamor.  It was occupied from around 7,000 BC to perhaps 1700 AD and was an astronomical site as well as metallurgical.

Excavation of the ruins has discovered a very large metal industry including a foundry with 2 kinds of blast furnaces.  The foundry is known to have extracted and processed gold, copper, and several types of manganese, zinc, strychnine, mercury, and iron.  Metal from the foundries of Metsamor found their way to Egypt, Central Asia and China.

Several Huge underground caves have been uncovered that are believed to have been storehouses for base metal, as well as a grain storage for winter months.  The first iron in the ancient world may have been forged here.

It is believed that metal working got its start there about 5,000 BC…one more blow to the Young Earth Creationists who STILL believe the earth was formed by a Mesopotamian god around 4000 + BC, and Tubal-Cain invented metal working well after the creation, but before the “Flood” on or about 2400 BC

There are many very ancient human sites around the Armenia/Turkey area going back at least 9,000 to 11,000 years or more.  The whole Babylonian/Turkey/Armenia/Iran/Iraq/Israel/Egypt area is the largest cradle of human civilization…although humans were not originally from there, when we migrated out of Africa to the areas they were found to be very conducive to human life.

Pretty cool chart about the petroglyphs and early writing in the area
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/Images/countries/Turkish%20pics/alphabetbig.jpg
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End Times, Armageddon, Second Coming. etc.

Got to thinking about the ‘End Times’ today (this being Sunday and all) and was wandering how close we were to the fabled ‘Battle of Armageddon.’ all the Christians keep talking about and wishing for. Seems there are still a few items from Biblical prophecy that need to happen before the actual ‘End Times’ are upon us.

“Megiddo was a site of great importance in the ancient world, as it guarded the western branch of a narrow pass and an ancient trade route which connected the lands of Egypt and Assyria. Because of its strategic location at the crossroads of several major routes, Megiddo and its environs have witnessed several major battles throughout history. The site was inhabited from 7000 BC to 500 BC.” From Wikipedia, go: HERE

This little fact about Megiddo’s being occupied 3000 years ( Jericho is even older) before God supposedly created Adam & Eve, makes one wonder, and maybe think that the writers of the Bible were just making up stuff.

“After the destruction of the Beast at the Second Coming of Jesus, the promised Kingdom is set up, in which Jesus and the Saints will rule for a thousand years. Satan is then loosed **”for a season” and goes out to deceive the nations, specifically, Gog and Magog. The army mentioned attacks the Saints in the New Jerusalem, they are defeated by a judgment of fire coming down from Heaven, and then comes the Great White Throne judgment, which includes all of those through the ages and these are cast into the Lake of Fire, which event is also known as the “second death” or Hell.” See Wikipedia HERE

Premillennialism is a doctrine very popular among Evangelical Fundamentalist Protestants in North America. Other premillennial groups include Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Seventh Day Adventists. Premillennialists believe the Second Coming of Christ will be the start of the ‘Millennium’ (the 1000 year period when Jesus (God for you Trinitarians) rules the world). Before this period will come a time of destruction, war and disaster on earth, called the ‘Tribulation’, which will be ended by God defeating evil (Those pesky Russkies maybe, or politicians?) at the battle of Armageddon.

During the ‘Tribulation’ the Antichrist (Satan’s emissary…probably a politician) will torture humanity, and God will go to war against him. The tribulation will end in seven years when God defeats the Antichrist and we will enter the ‘Millennium. One thing to wonder about…why would a omnipotent God take seven years to defeat evil? Another thing that is troubling to me is that some Christians think they will be caught up in a ‘Rapture’ and miss all the Tribulation. Just like the Trinity, the Rapture doesn’t seem to be mentioned in the Bible…and some Christians build a whole church/sect on these things.

Hard core Premillennialists also don’t see much point in Christians trying to improve the world, since God is about to destroy much of it…and then remake it…again…think Noah’s Flood. I could kinda’ see their point here, but since all this is just very weird and wishful thinking, and old myth’s, they really aren’t very good world citizens…and kind of downers to be around socially.

**Whats up with letting Satan loose again…does God have no mercy?

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Many fundamentalist Christians believe that the building of the Third Temple is one of the prerequisites for the second coming of Christ. Some Christian fundamentalists in the United States support arms sales and military aid to Israel in the belief that these actions will help Israel rebuild its Temple and thus bring about the End Times. Critics say the actions of fundamentalist Christians in Israel and Palestine, which includes providing material support for Jewish settlers in what was formerly Palestinian lands, is building dangerous tension in the area. However the Temple Mount is now controlled by Muslim’s, and is considered its most sacred (Dome of the Rock) site, so its unlikely that the Jews will attempt to build a new Temple there for a very long time…if ever.

Well, I think we can count out the fulfilling of this Temple³ prophecy for the immediate future. I don’t think the Muslim’s will give up the site and Israel so far looks like they don’t want to start WWIII.

All this sounds pretty scary, but since there is already lots of doubt about the stories I don’t think I’m going to worry about these Biblical myths very much. And people openly and loudly wishing for the end of the world need to go suck eggs. 🙂

Actually the Battle of Armageddon was fought in 1918, British Christianity…against the Ottoman Empire. We won.

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Did God Help the Hebrews?

“I’ve often thought that the Bible should have a disclaimer in front saying this is fiction” Ian McKellen

The Jewish people claim that Yahweh, Elohim, or God, pick whichever name you like, was the creator of the world …and humanity…and made himself known to Abraham as a God and protector of the Hebrew race. Not the human race, which was flourishing at the time, but the Jewish race.

Taking the numbers from the Bible, describing Huge battles involving thousands or hundreds of thousands of warriors, the population of earth had to be tremendous…in the millions and millions. ‘God’ picks Hebrews as ‘His’ people???

Now if you know anything about the history of the Middle East, Hebrews, Jews, Persia, Syria, Egypt, Israel, Judea, or any of the various tribal groups roaming around the Holy Land area, you know that the Hebrew tribes never were very successful as a country, or military power, or race for that matter.

They had three kings, all of three of which were hugely flawed. They were constantly revising their theology and beliefs. Many of them converted to other religions when they were dispersed at different times during their history. Now if you KNEW that your God was the only true one…how could you change your religion?

Time after time they go into battle and lose. They are conquered time and again, they are dispersed and exiled many times and finally the Romans conquer and destroy Jerusalem and what’s left of the Jews spread all over the world.

There is no real evidence of a ‘God’ helping them or being advantageous to their existence.

Do any of you ‘out there’ see some evidence of an omnipotent, omniscient being helping the Jews? I sure don’t.

Why would anybody want to carry on the worship of a God that so obviouly had no power over our world? Who would want to be associated with a ‘God’ that never helped it’s subjects? Why would you want to buy into that whole guilt and sin fantasy?

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Sunday Sermon…The Beginning of God

When you are given something…do you expect to go out and kill for it? I wouldn’t.

If God gave the wandering Hebrews the land of Israel (the Promised Land), why should they have to go and kill the original inhabitants of the land?

And what of the people that lived there and were slaughtered? Was God mad at them, or did the Hebrew’s just make that up to justify their evil killing and maiming of innocents?

God sure thought a lot of people were sinning back then, or at least the writers of the Old Testament thought so and wrote about. From what I understand the Hebrews thought people were ‘sinning’ just because they didn’t accept the Hebrew God, or wash their hands before a meal.

There were people all over the world that had religions, and were worshiping different gods. Yet this powerful almighty Hebrew God, liked to involve himself in mundane Jewish affairs and was constantly involving himself and then punishing and then helping, and then punishing, etc., etc., etc.

Of course he never showed himself, he was just written about. Scribes would write all this stuff down after the fact and explain God’s motives. You know what; if you just read this stuff as a mythological campfire tale…it makes sense. If one tries to make believe that these people were writing about things we should care about, it’s nonsense. And it’s just Jewish myth.

I kind of care that old Abraham was tricked into almost killing his son. How evil is that anyway. Think of someone pulling a practical joke like that on you. I venture you would try to kill the jokester.

The story of Job is what really disturbs me though. I can’t conceive of a ‘loving God’ allowing the macabre torture of this poor man just to settle a dispute with his own (gods) evil creation. Job had no concept of what was going on, he was a human pawn that was viciously maneuvered and lost most of his life’s accomplishments. This was an abysmal attack on a total innocent, that could not conceive of god doing this to him…or anybody, for that matter. Kind of like the 9-11 attack on the twin towers, this was pure evil, godly terrorism.

The constant line in the Old Testament seems to be death and destruction to all those who try to f__k with the Hebrews. They are establishing their place on earth by hook or by crook. It seems everything is written to make it seem that they are supreme because they have a god they can call on to inflict mayhem on their adversaries.

It’s myth, just old made-up stories that have no relevance to anything but themselves. The Hebrew’s were describing their personal cultural super-heroes. They were making up stories to give them standing in the world, cultural pride, and to maybe help themselves forget that they slaughtered innocents to achieve a homeland. We’ve gone full circle it seems.

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God…Bad Jesus…Good

God has a hissy fit. He still hasn’t learned to stay out of Hebrew affairs
Leviticus 26:27-34
” ‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you. I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings. I will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins.”

1 Chronicles 21:14
“So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.” These were innocents by the way.

Somehow I’m missing the love here.

Hosea 13:16
“The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords.” I think I’m going to be sick here. Are we seeing the love yet?

These, of course, are just a few of the scriptures that illustrate the love that courses throughout the OT part of the Bible. How people can read past these things and not be suspicious of the supposed God behind them is beyond me.

Is it any wonder that Paul, in his New Testament takeover, quickly steers the focus of the faithful away from this Old Testament Ogre, and into the different world vision of his supposed encounter with Jesus on the road (in a beam of light) to Damascus. Using the established OT world vision that many/most people of that culture were acquainted with, and building a new mythology, a new religion based on a kinder, gentler God image. Jesus…a God of Love…yea, that’s the ticket. Well, he didn’t really work out Jesus being God…that had to wait until the Catholics got into power. The early theology was a little rough and had to be tweaked a bit to make it more believable

I think Paul was looking around at all the religious fervor going on in his time, and got to thinking that if he could somehow meld the established OT religion (which Jesus was espousing) into the new mold of a milder spiritual personality that didn’t go around killing, raping, and torturing …he just might achieve lifetime employment for himself. The apostles didn’t seem to be doing much with their inheritance, why not fudge a little and scoop up this opportunity and run with it.

The concept of ‘original sin’ was pure genius on his part. Oh, the possibilities of this for sermons, placing guilt on the masses, and solidifying his place in history. A new concept that heretofore was not even thought of or mentioned in OT writings, or by Jesus, and he was able…by himself… to get it accepted by the theologians and common folk. What a guy.

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Sunday Sermon III

Fake Biblical artifacts is an old story now, as The History Channel has already done a film on the events. This excerpt below gives us an idea of how hard-up people of faith are to try and prove the basics behind their faith.

…”Hundreds of biblical artifacts in museums all over the world could be fakes, it has emerged after Israeli investigators uncovered what they claim is a sophisticated forgery ring…Four men have been charged with the faking of some of the most important biblical discoveries in recent years…

…”Shuka Dorfman, head of the Israel Antiquities Authority, said the forgery ring had been operating for more than 20 years and had been “trying to change history”. Scholars said the forgers were exploiting the deep emotional need of Jews and Christians to find physical evidence to reinforce their faith.”… My emphasis-twom.

Story excerpted from: guardian.co.uk. Here

There are many details in the Bible that are undoubtedly true, but there are many more that are figments of some old men’s imagination. Biblical inerrancy is one of the things that is a figment. Some of the stories are purely imagination and are disproven in today’s world. These old stories only worked when people were ignorant. The only reason some of today’s people believe them, is they choose to be ignorant.

Since at least the sixteenth century, men and women of reason have been exploring and finding out the real truths about our world, and these truths have not always been beneficial to established religion and Biblical thought. It’s not like Reason and Science have been out to get Christianity; all other religions and gods around the world, that rely on magic to explain itself, are equally disproven.

Religion and its followers cling to the old ways with a fierceness that is sometimes scary. They will ridicule and hate and go to extremes to verbally and emotionally abuse anyone they suspect of causing disbelief in their faith. If you don’t believe as they do…then you are Satan in disguise…you are going to hell…you don’t deserve to be friends with…’WE (insert sect here) KNOW’ the truth.

Religion is inherently divisive. This is not just idle thought. Witness world history since religions have taken over cultures and races. Religion has been used over and over as excuses for genocide against neighbors and races. Not only do the religions themselves initiate death and destruction, but also secular leaders down through time have used religions for the same purpose. I just can’t imagine a real God doing the things that are attributed to Him. This God-is man in disguise…WE give him the attributes we want him to have…WE have made this God in OUR image…Not the other way around.

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God’s Wife

Very interesting site that talks about God’s wife Asherah and how she was deleted from the Hebrew Pantheon in the early days, as the priests adjusted the story of Yahweh, El, or Elohim to make a monotheistic God. Shrewd story tellers those Hebrews. Go: Here

From the ABC radio program The Ark, hosted by Rachael Kohn.

Rachael Kohn: “To archaeologists and some Biblical historians the Israelites’ monotheism, enshrined in the Bible, was a long time coming. Before the single God of the Bible, there was a divine couple, and Asherah was in effect, God’s wife. Biblical archaeologist, Dr Diana Edelman from Sheffield University in the UK says the evidence for ‘Mrs. God’, known as Asherah, is both material and scriptural.”

Diana Edelman: “Well in the Bible, we in fact have a mention of God’s wife about 48 times, but she has come to be a little bit obscured, probably deliberately, when monotheism truly did develop, and God was made to look like a bachelor, even though he was officially made a widower.”…

…Diana Edelman: …well Israel ceased to be in 721 BC; Judah continued that religion. When it was sent into exile there was a change, and it’s when they come back from exile that it seems that Mrs. God has been ousted. She’s no longer welcome in the Pantheon. And it’s when we get the new Temple rebuilt in Jerusalem the traditional date for that is given under Darius about 515 BCE.”

We have all sorts of funny things in that new Temple. No.1, we don’t have The Ark any more. The primary symbol of Yahweh when he used to be the God of Judah, was the Ark, which seems to have been tied up with the title Yahweh of the Hosts, showing him a very martial God; that symbol is gone…”

William Dever, See this article in Biblical Archaeology Review

“Asherah was, of course, finally driven underground by the reformist parties that edited the Hebrew Bible. In its final form she is written out of the text. Hence, she disappeared and all her cult imagery with her when Jewish monotheism at last triumphed in the period after the Israelites returned from the Babylonian exile.”

From Wikipedia, Here
The goddess Asherah, whose worship Jeremiah so vehemently opposed, was worshipped in ancient Israel and Judah as the consort of Yahweh and Queen of Heaven (the Hebrews baked small cakes for her festival):

“Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” -Jeremiah 7:17-18

“… to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem …” -Jeremiah 44:17

…”Tilde Binger notes in her study, Asherah: Goddesses in Ugarit, Israel and the Old Testament (1997, p. 141), that there is warrant for seeing an Asherah as, variously, “a wooden-aniconic-stela or column of some kind; a living tree; or a more regular statue.” A rudely carved wooden statue planted on the ground of the house was Asherah’s symbol, and sometimes a clay statue without legs. Her cult images- “idols”- were found also in forests, carved on living trees, or in the form of poles beside altars that were placed at the side of some roads. Asherah poles are mentioned in the books of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Judges, the Books of Kings, the second Book of Chronicles, and the books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Micah. The term often appears as merely אשרה, Asherah; this is translated as “groves” in the King James Version and “poles” in the New Revised Standard Version, although no word that may be translated as “poles” appears in the text. Scholars have indicated, however, that the plural use of the term Asherahs, as Asherim or Asherot, provides ample evidence that reference is being made to objects of worship rather than a transcendent figure.”

Most Christians have no idea that the Bible was continually edited and changed significantly well into the fourth Century CE. Strong Christian believers I have talked to just flatly deny that the Bible was ever messed with and they will not listen, I suppose they are thinking I’m the devil. Well, I guess that is the kind of single-mindedness that is required to be Christian…there’s too much information out there, so lets not listen anymore.“

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