The Killers in Religion

Did Osama bin Laden invoke God when he planned and carried out the deadly attack on New York’s Twin Towers on September 11th, 2001?

Did George Bush also call on God when he unleashed the bombers and missiles on the countries of Afghanistan and Iraq?

Do the Palestinian suicide bombers call upon God when they explode themselves in crowded Israeli cities and busses and crowded restaurants?

Do the Jewish people call upon God when they retaliate against the Palestinians with tanks and missiles and bulldoze their buildings?

Did you know that just Christians (Catholics and Protestants) fighting among themselves in the last two thousand years have killed over 15 million believers, much much more than that when you count the collateral damages that all wars bring, such as diseases and starvation.

Catholics and Protestants have both called on God as they killed each other in England, Ireland, Scotland, France, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Russia, Switzerland, Austria, Bohemia, Netherlands and probably most other countries to some degree.

And then there are the Jews…Catholics and Protestants have, for two thousand years, been rooting for the death of Jews individually and as a race.  Jesus killers that they are.*  Hitler with the unspoken consent of the Catholic and Protestant population of Germany tried his best to wipe them out.

And then there are the ancient Hebrews fighting and killing those sinners that God pointed out to them and sanctioned the death of…including women, children, and babies.

Do any religious people stop and think that maybe a real God would not do-or-sanction this kind of behavior…ever?

Where is the God in all of this?

What are the ministers and priests who abuse children in the name of God thinking?

What are the Bishops, Archbishops, and Cardinals thinking when they try to hide evidence that their Godly religion is pure evil? Do you think that the pedophiles of the church are just a recent thing and restricted to just the USA?

What are the Religious leaders of the world (Muslims, Christians, and Jews) thinking when they tell us that people of different sexual persuasion should be killed? Well maybe the ones that prey on children.

What is keeping the people of this world believing in a sky spirit that is so obviously evil and anti-human?  This is not an argument about free will…this is an argument against a false God…a fake God…a God that can’t seem to make its followers God-like or humble or good, if it does exist.  Do you think you should support a God that gives you no advantage for following him, or that never answers prayers?

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Creationism and Science and Change

Science and Religion have…until recently, publicly fought over two issues.  Once, in the early 1600’s when Galileo Galilei dared to contest the Catholic Churches belief that the Sun revolved around the Earth.  The Church of course lost that battle, although it took hundreds of years before they admitted it, and they imprisoned the poor man for challenging their authority.

The second confrontation was on the subject of Evolution. When Darwin published his book On the Origins of Species, in 1859, I think every church in the world went bonkers in denial, and of course the Catholics were at the forefront of the condemnation.  This lasted until about 1950 when Pope Pius XII in his Encyclical Humani generas declared that evolution and faith were not in conflict. That was followed, in 1996, by Pope John Paul II, in his message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, explicitly endorsed the findings of evolutionary theory.  So in essence what happened here is the Church just gave up, and in, because once again the preponderance of Real World evidence supported the side of science.

Now unfortunately the Catholic Church, although the largest, is not the only Christian congregation out there, and there are hundreds, if not thousands, of evangelical fundamentalist gnats flying around the bones of religion.

They are scrambling for dominance in the Protestant world and they are gathering souls and helping the best and brightest of their ilk to earn PhD’s and to write papers for their creationist journals where they argue that magic and the supernatural are true and ‘scientific.’ They want magic to be accepted in our school systems, all the way through college level, as how our world and universe was brought about.

They want to teach our children, our future generation, that the earth was created 6,000 years ago, and that dinosaurs walked the earth with Adam and Eve and Noah.  They want to teach that Neanderthals never existed and there was an ice-age after ‘The Flood.’  They propose to take the accumulated scientific knowledge of the human race and deny it’s truth, they want to tell our children that the scientist don’t know what they are doing…and are lying about their findings, and are probably in cahoots with Satan.

One cannot just listen to their rhetoric and say, “Well, maybe there’s something to it.”  You have to follow through with their assertions and question their motives.  They want nothing less than completely gutting our educational system, and by extension, our secular form of government. They literally want the Bible to be the ‘LAW’ of the land. They want their Christian Protestant church to rule over ALL of us.  They want their worldview to be controlling our destiny.  Even if you don’t believe their version of religion, they think they are right and should rule over you. They want an end to secular government and for theism to control all.

That’s damn scary.

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Religion and Slavery

A person who often replies to this blog…and me…are in a discussion on slavery in the Bible.

I feel that by condoning the practice in many places in the Scripture, the Bible is letting us know that Christianity and the Bible is not ‘Divinely Inspired’ or the actual work of a God.

For those who want to look it up, here are a few places to go:

Exodus 21:4-6 Guidelines for buying, selling, treatment, etc.
Deuteronomy 15:15-17 Handle your maid slaves
Exodus 21:7-9 Sell your daughters into.
Joel 3:8 Sell off your sons and daughters
1 Timothy 6:1-2 Masters are worthy of honor
Matthew 10:24 and John 13:16 Masters are better, maid slaves be submissive in ALL ways
Ephesians 6:5 and Colossians 3:22 ‘Slaves obey your master’
10 Commandments, numbers 4 and 10 recognize and therefore give tacit approval to slavery.
Matthew 8:5-13 Jesus heals Roman centurions slave while praising centurion.
Luke 12:47 Jesus recommends the beating of slaves.
Matthew 24-25 Jesus reminds slaves they are not better than their masters.
Neither the Old nor New Testament condemns slavery. By not condemning, there is tacit approval given.

There is Christian Apologetics out there that try to minimize what they were teaching and practicing.
It took secular leaders and common people to finally get together and condemned it. As you know a war was fought over it…surely a God would know this, and put a verse in the Bible to call Christians together to end slavery…never happened.

If you put yourself into the position of the writers of the Scripture and realize that they were brought up seeing slavery all around them. Their fathers and grandfathers and so on were brought up with the practice all around them. Some of them were slaves maybe. There was no thought that slavery is a BAD (unless you were one) thing…that a God would not allow it, or condone it. So they wrote slavery into the Bible as common everyday stuff.

One of the lines of apologetics for slavery follows:

Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society.” http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

I believe that yes…religion, God, and the Bible’s purpose IS to reform; not only society, but also man himself. This Bible is used all the time as an example to reform man and society. Jesus was set up to be a shining example of how a human should be.

So the Hebrews did not realize when they wrote their ‘holy text’ that slavery wasn’t normal, it wasn’t a Godlike thing to do, and a real God would not condone enslavement. This of course speaks to the Bible not being inspired by God, but written by man.

And lets not forget all those Old Testament babies being bashed against the walls, and the pregnant women being run through with a sword…at God’s direction. No amount of apologetics can explain these actions as the works of a loving God.

The only reasonable explanations for all of the carnage, rape, murder, torture, and slavery that is recorded by the old Hebrew scribes and Paul is…it is a product of human minds…not a God creature.

“Once there was a time when all people believed in God, and the church ruled. This time is called the Dark Ages.”

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Where DID Cain get his wife?

So not to long after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden they have that long awaited and dreamt about sexual contact…it must have been driving Adam crazy seeing Eve all naked while they were in God’s good graces and keeping the gardening up and all. I wonder how long they were both running around naked? The Book of Jubilees (late 2nd. Century BCE) says Adam and Eve were kicked out about 8 years after being created. (Jubilees 3:33)

Anyway, after they were kicked out, they had the worlds first human sex and not long after Eve delivered a baby boy …Cain. Then she got pregnant again and had Abel. Now the Bible doesn’t say how long after the great ‘Kick Out’ she gave birth, but it seems like it was shortly after their expulsion.

Now, some time later…again Bible doesn’t say, but it was probably after Abel was at least 16-18 years old, after all he was the chief sheep-herder for the only 4 inhabitants of the earth.

So at some point when Able was young, after all God was visiting them for the first time, Cain got insanely mad at Abel, because he was smarter than Cain, and he killed his younger brother. We all kinda know what happened next. God confronted Cain and Cain asks God if he was his brother’s keeper…and so on. So Cain was kicked out of the clan of Adam and Eve the gardeners.

He leaves Eden (after packing up his other suit and toiletries), and lo and behold, he marries his wife.

Now we have all probably thought of this discrepancy at some point, and there is a whole line of apocryphal texts that have attempted to solve this problem by writing new Scripture, and claiming that he had sisters that were not mentioned at the time. Some have gone so far as to come up with the sisters names. Trouble with these documents is they seem to have all been written looong after the Pentateuch was written or transcribed or redacted (700 to 400BCE). So one should maybe not put to much stock in them.

Three people left on earth; Adam, Eve, and Cain. The official Protestant and Catholic Churches and the many sects, that seems to keep growing in number all the time, deny that the Apocrypha is true. Cain takes a wife.

After Cain and Able; Adam and Eve, the progenitors of the whole human race have no more children until Adam (and I assume Eve) is 130. Then they (Adam and Eve) have Seth. Then they have more sons, and finally…daughters.

While Adam and Eve are waiting until they are 130 years old to have more children…Cain takes a wife, and builds a city.

So to recap; Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel right after leaving Eden, where they had spent 8 years. Cain kills Abel. Only 3 people left on Earth. No more children for about a hundred or so years, but Cain takes a wife and builds a city.

Do you suppose Eve visited her grandchildren before Seth was born? Maybe skinned a few rabbits to provide clothing for the little ones?

Something is missing here. If you are purporting to write the history of the human race, as given to you by divine revelation from God, you really need to have your stories make more sense.

We know that the people of the time were very intelligent, after all the Egyptians had already built a civilization and were contemplating building the Pyramids :-), and the people of Babylonia were building cities (and Plains Indians of the Southwestern US were chasing and killing Mammoths).

You would think the scribes could put together a more believable and internally consistent story. Or, God would know his people were not dummies and tell them the true story.

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The Trinity is Dead

Below we find a scholars attempt to explain the concept of the Trinity. I have run across many other comparably obscure explanations in researching this subject….Not one of them I have found makes any rational sense.

“The historic formulation of the Trinity (derived from the Latin word trinitas, meaning “threeness”) seeks to circumscribe and safeguard this mystery (not explain it; that is beyond us), and it confronts us with perhaps the most difficult thought that the human mind has ever been asked to handle. It is not easy; but it is true.”

“The basic assertion of this doctrine is that the unity of the one God is complex. The three personal “subsistence’s” (as they are called) are coequal and coeternal centers of self-awareness, each being “I” in relation to two who are “you” and each partaking of the full divine essence (the “stuff” of deity, if we may dare to call it that) along with the other two.”
Packer, J. I. (1993) Concise theology: A guide to historic Christian beliefs. Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House.

I stand in open-mouthed awe at the ability of some to push this man-made twaddle concept down so many throats in the last 1700 or so years.
Protestant church leaders and members really need to research this matter further. Most people who believe in a trinity have to retreat into an explanation of “it’s a mystery” or “it’s unexplainable.” There is NO clear-cut theological foundation for Trinity—you see it’s so obviously made up by men…when you read of the beginnings of this hoax.

The bible describes a God who is almighty and eternal (Isaiah 44:24), who begets a Son (Hebrew 1:5, Luke 1:30-35, Matthew 3:17), anoints him with his Spirit (Acts 10:38, Matthew 3:16, Luke4:18), teaches him what to say (Luke 2:40,52, John 7:16, 12:49), raises him from the dead (Acts 3:15, 5:30) , exalts him to his right hand (Acts 2:33, Philippians 2: 9-11).

From none of the Scriptures mentioned above do I get even the slightest sense of “threeness”, and I wonder how the early church came up with the concept. Is part of Christianity “hidden” from the understanding of mere men?

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The Trinity, Brothers of Jesus, Was Mary A Constant Virgin?

Hi again quickbeamoffangorn, Good to hear from you again. I’m putting this on column–much easier to edit, allows for more exposition.

OK, I went to your reference link, and I’m still not groking this. I only have Webster’s and Random House dictionaries and not OED. Spiration does not show up in Catholic dictionary.

Your link: “http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm He proceeds, not by way of generation, but by way of spiration, from the Father and the Son together, as from a single principle.”

“Yes, of course Jesus had brothers and sisters, Mary was not a perpetual virgin.”

“Sorry this is simply a misreading of the scriptural data. The former point isn’t proven at all. You are free to hold the latter if you chose, but frankly if one places themselves in St. Joseph’s shoes; I don’t think you’d be keen on bedding down with a women who was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit. Of course if you dismiss the bible as historically inaccurate then that goes out the window, but then there’s no point in having a discussion either if that’s the case.”

Well on the above point I am going to take Occam’s Razor firmly in hand, place to my throat, and say:

Mathew 1:25: And [Joseph] knew her not till she had brought forth her *firstborn son: and he called His name JESUS.

Mathew 12:46-47: While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Mathew 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Mark 3:31-32: There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.

Mark 6:3: Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Luke 2:7: And she brought forth her *FIRSTBORN son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Luke 8:20-21 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee. And he answered and said unto them, my mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

John: 7:3: His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest..

*To be called the firstborn may imply there are more, and the different scripture selections seem to back this up by referencing “brethren” in a separate manner than “brothers of the congregation.” Just a billion or so Protestant people’s belief. On the point of bedding down with a wife who’d had relations (in a spiritual way) with God-there may be some element of sexuality there you have not considered. 🙂

I consider the Bible historically accurate on most points. People, places, and a number of events, have been shown to be true by archaeological and other sciences. However these same sciences are showing that a lot of Genesis events are not. Of course there is controversy about the sciences intruding in religion, but I feel it is a legitimate area of research.

I’m not even close to being an arian–Sikh’s are weird. That whole mustache and beard thing is creepy. 🙂

LOL, I don’t know if your having a bit of fun at my expense on this one or not. Arianism don’t have to do with Sikh’s. It was the heresy that rocked Christianity in the 4th century.http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm

I think there may be too many arians around. When you mentioned this term, I immediately thought of the Indian sub-continent. This is from Wikipedia:

The Arain are an agricultural caste settled mainly in the Punjab (Pakistan), with significant numbers also in the Sindh (Pakistan). They are chiefly associated with farming (market gardening), traditionally being small landowners or zamindars

Being slightly dyslexic, I transposed the i and a. Well at least we got a laugh from it. 🙂


I think I do hold the Sola Scriptura position on most things I read in the Bible, as do a lot of people of the Protestant faiths. Although I am not of those faiths, I do follow most of their logic in regards to deciphering Scripture

“The Trinity was fought over for years before it was canonized; it was a human thing. Were it a God-driven message, there would have been no opposition.”

Now here you appear to move into what appears to be a Monothelites position (one will) another heresy only that was condemned in the late 7th century.

Not believing in a Trinity does put me in the category of Monotheism. Me, a Heretic? I’ll fight you all the way to the stake. 🙂

Wasn’t Jesus ministry itself opposed by religious humans? Does it follow that His ministry is therefore human driven? I don’t think that point stands.

The ministry of Jesus was opposed by the Jewish clergy, the Sadducees, etc.. It seems, from Scripture, that the common folk followed him

” Remember, God was supposed to be directing this thing. People were tortured for their non-belief in the Trinity. Does that seem like a Godly enterprise?”

Agreed. This was political then anything else. The Trinitarians were tortured, beaten, exiled and killed by the Arian emperors and when Trinitarian emperors came to power they in turn applied the same method to the Arian believers. Their rational was to create political stablility as a unifying principle for the empire.
Most of history used that principle. The church isn’t excused in going along with the states methods, but that does not invalidate it either IMO.

First, I don’t think there were any non-Trinitarian emperors. Emperors previous to Constantine did not believe in the Christian God. Constantine was the first emperor to convert to Christianity; all the others were pagan. He was the first emperor to legalize Christianity. When Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity he was not a hard believer of one way or another, regarding the Trinity. At the end of the Nicene council he told the members to decide on Trinitarianism or monotheism, they choose the former, and there followed a number of years where the monotheists (arians) were tortured and killed for their beliefs–by The Mother Church, with Rome’s help of course. The 50 Bibles that Constantine commissioned at Nicene’s end contained the Trinity. Again I will ask; does that seem like a Godly enterprise?

“Regarding my using Bible literalism for exposition-Hey, priests and ministers have been doing it for centuries. ”

Selectively yes. I’m not saying it hasn’t been used, I simply saying it’s flawed.

Flawed or not it is used extensively by Protestants, and I feel no shame in using the same tactic.

“I think if this were indeed real (Trinity, Dualism, etc.) that there would not be the dichotomy we see in Scripture.”

Again this goes back to the reformation idea of sola scriptura. Your free to chose that position, just be aware it’s a 16th century creation.

Christianity has down through time constantly adjusted positions. I disagree on the Trinity and I don’t feel apprehension about it. But then I am not leading a billion people.

“There should not be a special class of priests necessary to explain God’s words or meanings.”

Easily understandable given the times we live in. As the secular world increases and the influence of Christianity continues to decline, the quality of all the Christians will increase, because true sacrifices will be required of them- especially in first world countries.

Interesting poll came out last week that said 45% of religious people have, in the last year, “changed” their religion. I wonder what is going on?

Been a pleasure “talking” to you “quick.”

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