More Evidence Against Noah’s Flood

Floods do not form mountains, but rather erode them away. Walter T. Brown, In the Beginning, 1986

All Biblical dates that I have seen for Noah’s flood fall within a period of the earth’s history known to historians the world over, as the “Bronze Age” This is a period in our collective history in which we humans discovered and used the metals copper and tin to make Bronze.

It started around 3500-3000 BCE in the Middle Eastern and African areas, and lasted until we learned how to make Iron (about 1200 BCE, probably in Africa) and thus entered the ‘Iron Age’ This time span also happens to encompass the beginning of writing and keeping records…so we have written records of what was going on at these times; in other words this was ‘historical’ time.

In those times the impetus for the development of the Bronze technology was war. Bronze was used in most weapons of the time, such as spear points, arrowheads, swords, axes, helmets, armor, and shields. Production of these items, in the quantities needed for the armies of the time, required much infrastructure and many people devoted to the making of them. This was not a fly-by-night operation

According to recorded history there were six well-established cultures or ‘civilizations’ at the time of Noah’s Flood. They were: Mesopotamia (Sumerian), Indus Valley, Egypt, the Minoan, the ‘Holy Land’ area, and China. Archaeological records such as ruins of cities, tools, pottery, skeletal remains, weapons, and other artifacts support the written records that survive. These records all show that humans and civilizations existed in almost all parts of the world at the time of the flood, and that there was a worldwide population of possibly 100 million people.

The civilizations of the time were using Bronze tools and had the potters wheel, looms to made textiles, had invented the plow and domesticated draft animals, they also traded with peoples hundreds of miles away. In other words a cultural revolution was going on. Man was changing from herders and hunter-gatherers to settled agriculture and cities that could support the new technologies. An infrastructure was developing. The written record and Archaeology support this view. Records of the Sumerian/Mesopotamian civilization show a continuous ongoing culture from about 3350 BCE to a period well past the Noachian flood.

Mesopotamia had great prosperity and expansion during the flood period under Sargon the Great and his grandson Naram-Sin. The area was a thriving center of culture and advancing civilization. There is no evidence for a cataclysmic flood wiping out the entire culture and infrastructure.

Egyptian civilization is probably familiar to most of us. Egypt’s dynastic history started with the uniting of Upper and Lower Egypt by King Menes, around 3100 BCE. The Egyptian period known as the “Old Kingdom” lasted from 2800 to 2175 BCE. During this time many of the pyramids were built. There is no record, written or archaeological, for a monster flood destroying and completely interrupting this countries infrastructure or it’s monuments such as the Sphinx, the Step Pyramid, or the Great Pyramids, which were built before ‘The Flood’

China has a reasonably accurate history starting around 3000 BCE. According to texts from a Chinese book called “Shu King” and verified by archaeological records, China was undergoing a prosperous period around 2400 to 2200 BCE during the early Yaou Dynasty. They have no record of a cataclysmic flood interrupting their whole civilization and destroying the infrastructure of the country.

The Indus valley civilization has a well-known history dating back to perhaps 3100 BCE. By 2500 BCE there were two major cities, Mohendaro (or Mohenjo-Daro) and Harrapa, which rivaled Egypt and Mesopotamia in population and technologies. This great Civilization also encompassed maybe 100 smaller cities, towns, and villages, and didn’t fall until about 1500 BCE. They have no record of a worldwide civilization-destroying flood.

The Minoan civilization was probably as old as Egypt. Based on the Island of Crete, this civilization grew quickly and was highly advanced by 2500 BCE. By the middle of the second millennium it had an alphabet, used bronze tools, had pottery, textiles, advanced architecture, and had established cities around the Islands. It continued to grow and was a center for trade and culture until about the mid-1400’s BCE  when it was suddenly destroyed by the violent eruption of the Thera volcano. There has been no evidence unearthed from this civilization that shows a flood destroying their whole infrastructure, at any time in their existence.

We do not have any archaeological evidence from the Japanese culture, Native American culture, or the Black tribes of Africa that indicate a world wide flood at any time in their existence. Think about this. How could all these civilizations, tribes, and world-wide culture along with sooo many people suddenly disappear from the earth and then suddenly reappear all over the world and bring the same culture, arts, pottery design, architecture, writing, language, and artifacts that was unique to them and their part of the world?

The entire history of the world does not show…any…of the known civilizations to have a large gap in their chronology or technologies as a result of being destroyed by a worldwide flood. It is not plausible that they were destroyed, and within a few short years, reappeared in their original numbers and with the same abilities and infrastructure. All the inventions and culture of the people of the time…would have had to be reinvented by new inhabitants…that did not happen. It just didn’t happen people. cat

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Where DID Cain get his wife?

So not to long after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden they have that long awaited and dreamt about sexual contact…it must have been driving Adam crazy seeing Eve all naked while they were in God’s good graces and keeping the gardening up and all. I wonder how long they were both running around naked? The Book of Jubilees (late 2nd. Century BCE) says Adam and Eve were kicked out about 8 years after being created. (Jubilees 3:33)

Anyway, after they were kicked out, they had the worlds first human sex and not long after Eve delivered a baby boy …Cain. Then she got pregnant again and had Abel. Now the Bible doesn’t say how long after the great ‘Kick Out’ she gave birth, but it seems like it was shortly after their expulsion.

Now, some time later…again Bible doesn’t say, but it was probably after Abel was at least 16-18 years old, after all he was the chief sheep-herder for the only 4 inhabitants of the earth.

So at some point when Able was young, after all God was visiting them for the first time, Cain got insanely mad at Abel, because he was smarter than Cain, and he killed his younger brother. We all kinda know what happened next. God confronted Cain and Cain asks God if he was his brother’s keeper…and so on. So Cain was kicked out of the clan of Adam and Eve the gardeners.

He leaves Eden (after packing up his other suit and toiletries), and lo and behold, he marries his wife.

Now we have all probably thought of this discrepancy at some point, and there is a whole line of apocryphal texts that have attempted to solve this problem by writing new Scripture, and claiming that he had sisters that were not mentioned at the time. Some have gone so far as to come up with the sisters names. Trouble with these documents is they seem to have all been written looong after the Pentateuch was written or transcribed or redacted (700 to 400BCE). So one should maybe not put to much stock in them.

Three people left on earth; Adam, Eve, and Cain. The official Protestant and Catholic Churches and the many sects, that seems to keep growing in number all the time, deny that the Apocrypha is true. Cain takes a wife.

After Cain and Able; Adam and Eve, the progenitors of the whole human race have no more children until Adam (and I assume Eve) is 130. Then they (Adam and Eve) have Seth. Then they have more sons, and finally…daughters.

While Adam and Eve are waiting until they are 130 years old to have more children…Cain takes a wife, and builds a city.

So to recap; Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel right after leaving Eden, where they had spent 8 years. Cain kills Abel. Only 3 people left on Earth. No more children for about a hundred or so years, but Cain takes a wife and builds a city.

Do you suppose Eve visited her grandchildren before Seth was born? Maybe skinned a few rabbits to provide clothing for the little ones?

Something is missing here. If you are purporting to write the history of the human race, as given to you by divine revelation from God, you really need to have your stories make more sense.

We know that the people of the time were very intelligent, after all the Egyptians had already built a civilization and were contemplating building the Pyramids :-), and the people of Babylonia were building cities (and Plains Indians of the Southwestern US were chasing and killing Mammoths).

You would think the scribes could put together a more believable and internally consistent story. Or, God would know his people were not dummies and tell them the true story.

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Real Truths About Religion and God

People have responded to many of my posts about religion by asking me where my proofs come from. I suspect these people are just religious believers who want to convert me, and others, who write about non-belief.

There is information on any subject you can imagine on the Internet (as I’m sure you all know), including original research papers on subjects relating to Biblical truth. The popular science-type magazines all have a web presence. And contrary to some Christians beliefs, they are not part of an evil cabal out to satanize all who view them.

I have a blogroll type list of websites I use to gather information from, on the right side of my site…if you’re reading this…you will see it as you scroll down. These are legit sites and they have reliable, mainstream, real world information. If Christians were to ever actually seriously research their Biblical beliefs they would soon see how much they have been misinformed, and how wrong the Bible is.

I am a realist however, and I just put the stuff out there with the hope that it will strike a chord with someone who is searching for the truth, and maybe cause them to go to real world proofs, instead of Hebrew myths, that are a waste of precious time and energy.

The famous site listed below has all the answers to flood myth lined up and they are checkable. Other parts of the site have some of the best general information about scientific origins of the earth, universe, humans, etc. They have been around since the early nineties. If you take time to explore it thoroughly you will find links to original research and real world explanations of our earth, and all who live on, and in it. The people who write there are experts-who happen to not have a Doctorate of Divinity.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

If the Noachian Flood can be disproven (and it has been), then other parts of the Bible are also suspect of being wrong. And there are many other disproven Biblical assertions. Many Christians just don’t accept the truth. They cling very hard to a 2800 year old Hebrew myth, a view of a childish God, that people of the time didn’t have enough knowledge, or intellectual sense of the world, to question.

That the Christian faith has survived this long is not an indicator of its being true. To the contrary, it is an indicator of how easily the church adjusts its theology to conform as much as possible to currant social conventions (think slavery, polygamy, prostitution, kings killing on a whim, etc.). The church is known to burn papers (and people) that disagree with currant theological thought.

Think about the currant ‘state of the religion.’ Now, about 2008 years since the birth of Jesus (?) Roughly 1700 years since Christianity got the official ‘okey-dokey’ from secular rulers, and its still in a state of disrepair. There are maybe thousands of sects and they all differ. Muslims believe in the same God…so they say, and they are out to kill us…for heresy. Catholics believe Protestants practice heresy, and vice-versa. Mormons…who knows what they believe. There is either one that is right…or none is right. There is not two of them who are right…or three, or four…

Through manipulation of human thought and incorrect reasoning, physical threats, actual physical harm, and burning at the stake, or as little as social/societal ostracism, Christians have spread their evil plot to take over the world and control humans…every actions and thought…for more than two thousand years. Think about it for a while; think about the whole long history of Jews and Christians and what they have always wanted from us.

What has been, and is, their ultimate goal? It’s to take over control of all humanity and tell us how to think and act…they actually have that kind of control of a significant portion of the US population…think Bible belt and the Deep South. Churches are the social center and source of information, on how to conform…of many hundreds of thousands or millions of Evangelical Fundamentalist type people. I think those people are afraid that if they don’t belong to a church, they’ll automatically go out and start sinning in the worst possible way.

There is some evolving news about change in the Catholic position on humanity. They are actually starting to accept that humans have a looong history. Go to the site below and check it out. Notice in the upper right hand corner where the paper comes from. That old fossil…the Catholic Church…might have some life and intellect left after all. http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/zim/zim_251adamandeve.html

Below is a quote from the article mentioned above.

“The Catholic position on this is clear. St. Thomas says that “one should not try to defend the Christian faith with arguments that are so patently opposed to reason that the faith is made to look ridiculous.” It is simply nonsense to say that the world is only 6,000 years old (Catechesis, Creation and Evolution, Zenit News, Dec. 19, 2005).” My emphasis.

The Catholics are leading the pack in the changing of theological thought to match what is known to be true nowadays, although their present thought is a little dopey. I look forward to following this change. I also look forward to how the Evangelical Fundamentalists will continue to deny In-Your-Face truth.

Some suggested Google search terms that I have followed: Religion, God, Jesus, El, Elohim, Yahweh, Jehovah, biblical tribes, Scripture, Noah’s flood, Ur of the Chaldeans, city of Dan, city of Laish, sea people, Babylon, age of earth, Hebrews, Christian myth, Sumerians, Akkadians, Mesopotamia, Jericho, Chaldea or Chaldeans, Assyria, Indus valley civilization, ancient Egypt, Hammurabi, Gilgamesh, flood stories, flood myths, Myths, ancient native Americans, Solutrian, Clovis points, cave paintings, Adam and Eve, African civilization(s), Bronze age, iron age, ancient Briton, ancient Europe, Neanderthal, Hebron, Abraham, Lot, biology, Midrash, Torah, Jewish myths, ancient languages, archaeological dating, carbon dating, dating methods, Dendrocronology, stratigraphy, oil geology, Permian, Paleontology, DNA, rNA, genetics, human history, human pre-history, ancient India, ancient Iran, Stonehenge, henges, pyramids, stelas, Rosetta stone, cuneiform writing, hieroglyphs, Euphrates river, Tigris river, Geology, life sciences, and on and on….

The above terms represent maybe one twentieth of the search terms (sorry they aren’t alphabetized) I have used in following the paths of Christian religion. I have been doing this for about two years now, in my spare time. If the site is religious sect sponsored, they will often try to deny real world science by any means they can, including, but not limited to, lying and misdirection. There are a few exceptions that are starting to tackle the problem head on though, and the Catholic Church, as mentioned above, is one of them.

There is not one or two sites that can disprove all things religious untrue, though talkorigins.com comes close. I find you have to visit and really absorb many, many different viewpoints and disciplines and slowly let them simmer in your head. Good hunting.

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Belief in God and Genesis

This is directed at Bible thumping, evangelical, Pentecostal, fundamentalist, believers in a personal God and Jesus.

People with enough sense to see through the flim-flam of modern day (and Old Time) Christianity can go about their business. 🙂

Answersingenesis puts the Noachian flood at 2304 BCE plus or minus 11 years.

Jehovah’s Witnesses place the flood at 2370 BCE. They don’t state an error factor, so I assume they’re pretty sure of the date.

Nowadays there is the story of the ‘Black Sea Deluge’ going around, and some are interpreting it as the reason for the many flood stories. It has been dated to about 5700-5900 BCE. This hypothesis (Black Sea) makes much more sense than the OT flood of Noah, as we know beyond a doubt that there was never a ‘world wide’ flood. They were all local.

One has only to pick dates between 2200 to 2500 BCE and then go to historical and archaeological data from around the world and do the proper investigating. There are no stories that can rightly be interpreted as “humongous world destroying floods” in Northern Europe, Central or Southern Europe, East or West Asia, India, Egypt, other Parts of Africa, Australia, North, Central, or South America….None. There is some geological evidence for small local floods, at different times, as one would expect when looking all over the earth.

Believers can talk till they’re blue in the face about many cultures having flood myths, so ours, about a worldwide flood, must be true….Wrong. The proven facts about worldwide population prove the Bible flood wrong beyond doubt. This also proves that the Tower of Babel story is wrong.

The Pyramids and Stonehenge were being built at the time of the Biblical Flood. We know, without any doubt at all, that most of the earth was populated between 2200-2500 BCE. The only way this can be denied is by using intentional stupidity as your criterion for looking at history. Every continent on earth was heavily populated at the Biblical Flood time. Hell, Mexico was experimenting with corn genetics 2000 years earlier than the ‘Flood.’

The Tower of Babel was 110 to 120 years after the flood, according to the Bible.

Do you think all these people living all over the earth were wiped out by a universal flood? Do you think you could possibly prove this? Of course not. But, it can be, and has been proven that it didn’t happen.

Do you think that all those tens of millions of people living all over the earth were talking the same language? Maybe grunting to each other? Of course not. They were using their own languages…the ones their mothers and fathers taught them…the ones people in their own countries were using for hundreds or thousands of years

The Genesis chapter is totally folklore/myth/old campfire stories. Modern day facts prove this beyond doubt. People who still believe this crap bunch of myths really need to get some education. Your church leaders…are leading you around by the nose, and you’re letting them.

The writers of biblical times were not even aware that there was a whole world beyond their limited, religiously driven sight. They were so taken up by trying to establish a reason for their being, that they had no vision of reality. They had no curiosity beyond their religion. They were probably the dullest, most anal people living on earth.

Can you imagine living your whole life in anticipation of something that never comes…Oh I forgot….you are. Can you imagine not quite fitting in with the real world because you don’t know (or worse, you deny) the facts of life? Of course you fit in with your fellow believers, but not really anywhere else.

I just can’t imagine living with your constant paranoia of thinking the Devil/Satan is looking to trip you up at any minute. Your constant dread of the original sin hanging over your head. Why do people do this to themselves?
I know the superficial answer, what’s the real one I wonder?

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Biblical Flood Was Not Worldwide

The following story is semi-true, or maybe semi-false, I don’t remember. The names have been changed to protect the guilty.

“So, tell me Fred, what do you know about Noah’s flood?”

“What do you mean, what do I know?”

“You know, do you think it’s true; do you have any thoughts about it at all?”

“No, I don’t think it’s a believable or true story, I think it’s probably allegory.”

“Why would you think that? There are flood stories from civilizations around the world.”

“That may be, but most of the stories don’t have a close correlation to the Bible story. The only flood story that closely resembles it is The Epic of Gilgamesh, and it is written 400 to 500 years before the biblical one. I think it’s possible that someone took the Gilgamesh story and changed a few things and made it theirs. Besides, there is no real evidence of a worldwide flood, and no evidence at all for a flood around about the time mentioned in the Bible and in the area that Noah was likely to be at that time.”

“Well, I’ve heard that the evidence is all over the world and in all civilizations.”

Don, I don’t think that is true. Yes, there is evidence for floods all over the world, but it is for all different times in history. There was never a time when all the flooding occurred at the same time. And some civilizations that didn’t live near oceans, rivers, lakes, etc. never did have flood myth’s.”

“Well, a speaker at our church told us that all of the archeological evidence, you know, the layers of earth and such, are explained by the flood waters churning around on earth for a year or so.”

“I really don’t think that’s possible Don.” You look at the layers of rock and dirt and bones and artifacts in a archeological dig or in oil well cores that geologists take when they are trying to determine were to drill for oil. If you look at enough of these things and from all over the world you can’t help but notice that the first mile depth of the earth is sorted in exactly the same sequence. All the dinosaur bones are in one layer, all the trilobites are in another layer, all evidence of certain critters that have gone extinct are in another, and evidence of man is at the top. The layers that are found are the record of millions of years of life and death on earth, not only 4,000 years like they teach in church.”

Don smiles. “How do you know about oil wells Fred?”

“Didn’t I ever talk to you about it before?”

“No.”

“Back in the early 70’s I worked in the oil business in West Texas, around Big Spring, Midland-Odessa, Snyder, and Brownfield. The company I was with surveyed oil wells to determine at what depth and in what quantities the oil was coming from. By the late 70’s the oil business in Texas went into the toilet, but anyway I learned a lot about Geology at that time. Also if you read any modern Geology book you’ll find much better explanations than I can give you. I don’t think the explanation you got in church is even close to the real facts.”

“Well, that’s only one thing. I’m sure there are more things that back up the Bible story.”

“There are a lot more things that don’t back up the story, than do. For example Greenland ice-cores go back about 40,000 years and there are things that you would expect to find such as sediment, changes in salinity, oxygen ratios, stresses, and more that I can’t even remember—and there is no evidence for this. The Polar ice caps are another example. A worldwide flood would float the ice caps off their beds and break them into pieces, and there would not be enough time to regrow them to the size they are now. Another thing is that we have tree ring data going back some 10,000 years and there is no flood indication for the appropriate time. Some scientists have said that a flood like that of Noah would leave certain traces on the earth’s seabed’s that they don’t see. But, you know what seals it for me?

“What?”

“Egypt was building pyramids, had a written language and recorded everything, and they were right next door to Noah. They have no written OR geological evidence of a flood on that scale…Nada…Nothing. And another thing, in the UK the druids were building Stonehenge at this time…no evidence there either. There is much more, but I’m not a scientist and I can’t remember it all. You might want to do a little research before believing that story from church.”