Religious Facts…Aren’t

The argument has been made that after Noah’s Flood Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth scattered to the four corners of the earth and repopulated a dead world. Well this makes a good campfire story, but consider the fact that the worship of Yahweh, Elohim, Jehovah, or El, never reached the four corners of the earth till long after the death of Jesus.

The Flood supposedly happened about 2300-2400 BCE. Afterwards, Noah and his son’s and their wives spread over the face of the earth to populate the continents with ‘God believing’ good people. After all, that was the purpose of the Flood…right? So we should be able to see Gods plan in action…right? He wiped the earth clean so the ‘Godly’ people of His choice would repopulate and make the world ‘Good’ again.

Tell me…how did that work out?

Of course it didn’t work out, because it never happened. Most of the population of the planet never heard of a Christian ‘God’ until thousands of years later.

There is NO evidence for a worldwide…sudden…or otherwise…belief in our Christian God all over the earth in the time after ‘The Flood’. The Christian God was not known outside the Middle East for thousands of years.

Why IS that, I wonder? Do you suppose it’s because the story is a fabrication of weird little Jewish men roaming around the hot deserts of Egypt, Israel, and Iraq? Figments of near heatstroke. A vain attempt to aggrandize their poor tribe, and give the Jewish people, who had no land of their own, a trace of pride and sense of power.

Now this same argument disproves the Tower of Babel myth, as it is well known that languages existed in populations all over the world. They never went away. If one is able to think seriously and critically about the claims of the Christian religion (and all others) they totally fall apart. They don’t have a consistency with the physical evidence that keeps popping up so inconveniently.

I wonder if there is some ‘apologetics’ in the literature that attempts to explain this? If anyone out there knows about any, a shout out would be appreciated.

So, I suppose the poor Christians will keep believing the lies…that their clergy keeps feeding to them.

Their House of Religion depends on the peasants suspending their disbelief…kind of like the movies…a fantastic, ephemeral vision…that does not really represent the real world. They go about their business and think they are living in the present; when in fact they live in an unreal mythological past where Gods in the sky and magic were ‘real’.

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Genesis, Babel, Flood, Christians, Jews, etc.

Hi Jason, thank you for taking the time to write to me.
I’m putting your reply, and my reply to it, on a regular post because of better formatting options.

You quote me and write”
“Genesis hints that the man/earth is 6,000 years old-not true.”
“Actually, Genesis does not hint at any such thing. At least not in it’s original language which is Hebrew. The word that has been translated as “day” in genesis actually means “an unspecified amount of time”. The problem is a translational error that is common when going from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to Greek to English which is the typical path for most English translations.”

Yes, I know that. A number of Christian sects are beginning to realize this, but some still vehemently deny the long time periods. The people at Answersingenesis come to mind immediately. I have noticed also that a lot of Baptist, Pentecostal, general fundamentalists, and evangelicals go for the short time. The Catholics started the 6,000-year thing long ago, and most sects inherited it in the Protestant Reformation.

You write:
“Science, on the other hand, actually agrees, at least partially, with the “standard” reading of Genesis. The Big Bang theory states simply that in the begining of our universe all matter was condenced into a single point. There was an explosion and that sent matter flying out in all directions from the point of origin. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity tells us that he further matter moved away from the point of origin, the slower time got. In other words, it could have been six literal days (24 hours) at the point of origin, but 4 billion years on Earth.”

Yes I’m aware that The Big Bang Theory is very close to the “Let there be light, etc.,” from the bible. That is one very real possibility that I readily accept. However, in my version a creator does his thing and walks (or drifts) away. The silly melodrama that Jews and Christians have come up with to try and explain creation and subsequent evolution is myth of the first order. I don’t claim to speak for any gods, but my image of God or gods just doesn’t involve the childishness that Jews and Christians attribute to their God. (Muslims also).

You quote me and write”
“Genesis says there was a world wide flood-not true.”
Actually, there are mountains (no pun intended) of evidence that suggest there really was a world wide flood. The primary evidence is both anthropological and geological.”

Actually there is mountains of evidence (intended) 😉 that there was not a universal flood. The geological evidence has been amassing since the early 1700’s, when naturalists of the time started noticing the stratigraphic evidence did not agree with the story of Noah. There has never been found any geological evidence of a worldwide flood…that is not me talking…this is from all reputable scientists that study the record in all of it’s many parts. Yes you will find some “scientists” who will argue the points, but when they come upon a real expert in the field they are expounding on, their stories fall flat in the face of overwhelming actual real evidence.

You write:
“Anthropological evidence: Every single civilization on earth has a flood story. These stories are still passed down from their ancestors to modern people today. There are also tons of ancient pictographs, cave paintings, and writings that detail this flood. If you take out all the various religious symbology, every one of them is virtually identical. Even with the religious symbology there is scarcely 25% difference between the two furthest apart.”

Yes, there are flood stories all over the globe and that is due to large segments of the earth’s populations always being settled near sources of water, and those sources do tend to flood occasionally; even oceans. You won’t find flood stories among mountain tribes or highland civilizations. One thing of note is that the flood of Gilgamesh has over 20 points of similarity with the Noachian flood, but was written about a time that was about 500 to a 1,000 years before Noah. There is evidence of prehistoric floods all over the face of the earth, but they do not coincide in time…floods are common. This information can be found all over the Internet…in very reputable science journals and university-sponsored research.

You write:
“Geological evidence: The Grand Canyon is a perfect example. It used to be though that the GC was formed over millions of years by wind and water. When you have soil that dates as 10 million years old on top of soil that dates 2 million years old, something is seriously wrong. Scientific experiments designed to simulate the way the GC was thought to have formed have failed to reproduce similar effects.”

Here I believe you are using information from the following book” Whitcomb, John C. & Henry M. Morris, The Genesis Flood (The Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., Philadelphia, PA, 1961) The myths put forth in this old book have been thoroughly discredited by modern research. Actually at the time they wrote this book they probably knew they were wrong.

I’m going to quote a short piece from a very long article from talkorigins.org:
“There is a perfectly satisfactory gradual explanation for the formation of the Grand Canyon that avoids all these problems. Sediments deposited about two billion years ago were metamorphosed and intruded by granite to become today’s basement layers. Other sediments were deposited in the late Proterozoic and were subsequently folded, faulted, and eroded. More sediments were deposited in the Paleozoic and Mesozoic, with a period of erosion in between. The Colorado Plateau started rising gradually about seventy million years ago. As it rose, existing rivers deepened, carving through the previous sediments (Harris and Kiver 1985, 273-282).” Talkorigins.org-retrieved 4-09-08
If you follow the link and go to the talk.origins site, you will be into a very lengthy post about common questions that religious fundamentalists have about sciences rejection of a worldwide flood. These people know what they’re talking about…they are not cranks.

You quote me and write:
“Genesis says that man’s different languages originated at Babel-not true.”
“There is anthropological (FYI: Anthropology is a science) evidence that states otherwise. It is possible to trace back each ancient language (modern derivatives and polyglots such as English do not count) to a relatively small area on the planet. While it is not known (at this time) exactly where the Towel of Babel stood, this area is in the general vacinity.”

The time is about 2350 to 2370 BC. After Noah, his wife, his sons and their wife’s and Canaan left the ark, the spread to the four corners of the world each with their own land and language Quotes from KJV follow:

Genesis 10:5 KJV By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Genesis 10:20 KJV These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

Genesis 10:31,32 KJV These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations. 32These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

The Tower of Babel is generally agreed to be where Babylon stands today. The tower of Babel incident that the Bible reports is about 110-120 years after the Noachian flood. In the Biblical Tower of Babel story they fail to take into account (or even comprehend) that humans were spread all over the earth, not in just a small Middle Eastern land. Population of earth, at the time of Babel is estimated at anywhere from 10 to 50 million souls. Do you think they were all grunting at each other? Many civilizations lived right through the Biblical time of the flood and tower of Babel without a recorded hiccup…Egypt shows no sign of and does not record a gigantic flood at all, and they lived right next door, and they were building, or had built the pyramids. The Bronze Age was in full swing at the flood time, and requires fairly intensive infrastructure to produce all those chariots and war weapons…no sign of interruption.

You quote me and write”
“The walls of Jericho were probably already flat by the time Joshua got there. 300 years earlier”
“History says otherwise. Writings of the time, by both Jews and Gentiles, tell a far different picture. The geographical clues given in the Bible help to identify the time period that Yehoshua was there. There are writings that were made by other peoples that document Yehoshua and the army destroying the walls.

Jericho is one of the most ancient cities in the world. Archaeological data suggests it was inhabited back to the eighth millennium BC. Evidence for a destruction of the walls date to about 2300 BC, but the inhabitants rebuilt the town and erected new walls. Jericho appears to have been thoroughly destroyed by fire during the 1600 century BC, and, at best, only sparsely inhabited thereafter. Before 1300 BC the walls had already been destroyed leaving none to tumble before Joshua. At the time that the Bible sets the story. The city had been abandoned for 200-300 years. Google the name: Kathryn Kenyon, and follow her story about the excavations she led.

You write:
“Science and the Bible agree in many more areas than you think. In fact, science has not proven a single aspect of the Bible wrong.
And for the record, I’m not a Christian either. I’m a Jew.”

Yes, there are some areas of agreement, but mostly they disagree. Before science got really good at what they do, mostly in the last 60 or so years, religious leaders had a good ol’ time fooling the serfs that they kept under their thumb…The evidence and proofs for what the scientists were saying was hard to come by. Now the PC and Internet have opened up the halls of knowledge to all people on earth. I have yet to run into problems researching any subject I have come up with.

Science has proven the worldwide flood never happened…people of religion reject the proof…that doesn’t mean it’s not right. Evolution has been gathering steam for over 150 years now…it’s not getting weaker as some would have you believe…It’s getting stronger. The real, researchable proofs keep growing, despite childish and wrongly researched attacks by Creationist’s and fundamentalists.

I myself am a human.

Kinda interesting that all the DNA and blood evidence is pointing to Africa as the birthplace of humanity

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Was Canaan Born on the Ark?

Mt. Everest is 29,028 ft. high. Depending on what Biblcal version you use, the Noachian flood covered the earth to a depth of 29,050ft. to 29,075ft. Give or take a few feet. There is NO doubt whatsoever that Mt. Everest was not a little hill in the year 2500 BC and forward. It has been calculated that that much water falling in the time allotted by the story would amount to 6 inches per hour over the whole face of the earth. Anybody really believe that?

Why do you suppose there are two stories about the Ark animals and Noah’s attempt to see if the land was dry by sending out birds…could he not look over the side of the boat to see if there was dry land?

Genesis 9:18 KJV…And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan. ( Ham is the father of Canaan right off the Ark…so there was a baby born while the Ark was floating around?)

Genesis 9:19-27 KJV
19
These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread. (What of the Native Americans that were here in the US over 12,000 years ago, with no evidence of flooding out)

20And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

21And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
(It takes 3 years for newly planted vineyards (from cuttings) to produce usable fruit; and where did the cuttings come from?)

22And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

23And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.

24And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son (Ham) had done unto him. (What had Ham done; reported the problem?)

25And he said, Cursed be Canaan; (What?) a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. (Canaan would be maybe three years old at the time, older by a year maybe, if he were on the Ark in the first place.).

26And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

All Italics after Scripture are added by me.

Genesis 10:5 KJV By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Genesis 10:20 KJV These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

Genesis 10:31,32 KJV These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations. 32These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

So after the flood the sons and daughters in law of Noah were dispersed over the face of the earth. Each with their own land and Language.
Now, 110 to 120 years after the flood in Babel (Babylon?) we learn that:

Genesis 11:1 KJV And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech

Genesis 11:9 KJV Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Not the Chinese and East Indians, Japanese, Englanders, Norse, Swedes, Egyptians, tribes of African, North, Central, and South Americans, Germanic, East Asians, Aborigines, or Eskimo’s. I’ve probably missed a few hundred. ALL the Actual Real Physical Evidence so far, has shown that men/women were spread all over the earth for tens and tens and tens of thousands of years, and all spoke different tongues.

So, what’s going on here? Did God bring all the spread out people back to Babel (Babylon?) make them all speak one language again so he could change all their languages back once more and scatter them out across the earth…once again?

Hummm.

Genesis 11:31 KJV 31And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son’s son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram’s wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there. Abram mentioned here is Abraham-The Father of the Jewish people.

Ur of the Chaldees did not exist for another 800 to a 1,000 years after the time of Abraham.

The deeper you look into the Bible the more confusing it gets. There hardly seems to be any stories that can’t be honestly questioned.

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