Religion Wants to Destroy Science

If the Church wants to be successful in changing society’s attitudes toward abortion, pornography, and homosexuality, it is going to have to fight the issue at a foundational level. The foundational basis of evolution needs to be destroyed and the foundational basis of creation restored to its rightful place of importance. Ken Ham, founder, Answers in Genesis (AiG) (science is the foundational basis of evolution)

Ken Ham is arguably one of the most dangerous men in America. He resorts to lies to achieve his ends. His objective is nothing less than the dumbing down and destruction of the American people and society through smothering the minds of our children and the creativity and inquisitiveness we as a society display. As can be gathered from the quote above he wants the sciences to be destroyed and from his other writings he advocates a kind of primal religious teaching of our children and a religiously controlled government.

Ken Ham is the founder of Answers in Genesis and a firm believer and marketer of “creation science”, or Young Earth Creationism (YEC), both of which are early illegitimate cousins of “Intelligent Design”. His real…ultimate goal is to convert the world to his brand of Christianity…whether they want to or not. He is also the ‘owner/operator’ of the ‘Creation Museum’ in Petersburg, Kentucky, a venue he uses to indoctrinate children and their parent and teacher visitors into his version of the “Truth.”

Since America has the highest percentage of dupe’s religious believers, he is correct in targeting the US first. It is a sad fact that we have a very high number of really dumb citizens…witness Jay Leno’s “Jaywalking” skit on the Tonight Show.

Ham believes that the first book of the Bible…Genesis, is the very foundation of Christianity and it is the literal truth of all human reality. The universe, earth, and humanity are only 6000 or so years old. This is societal and scientific heresy of the highest order.

This man believes that acceptance of evolution, homosexuality, abortion, pornography, racism, use of drugs, and more are directly related…go hand in hand, so his stated solution to solving these problems is the destruction of science.

This, to my mind, is a problem of the first order. Fundamentalist, Evangelical religions are subtly advocating the destruction of the very foundations of our modern society. They advocate the fulfillment of their apocalyptic visions of life. They are trying to make their vision of life self-fulfilling.

We know from history that Christianity (Islam also) has been associated with, or responsible for, or supported; sexual abuse, torture, murder, fraud, deceit, infanticide, slavery, racism, genocide, and probably more I can’t think of right now. We also know from history that secular controlled governments can be responsible for the above-mentioned shameful behavior, but most secular governments can and eventually do change, unlike religions, which are cast in stone.

Do you really think a God, or Jesus, would approve the kind of deception and dishonesty that Ken Ham…and those like him…are using to delude us? Do you think a true religion and a true God would need the manipulations these people are using?

I don’t.

Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth. Henry Louis Mencken, American journalist, (1880-1956)

Everything You Wanted to Know About God

“When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, “Let us pray.” We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.” (Bishop Desmond Tutu)

From time to time I visit various religious websites and read the literature and views they are espousing. Today I visited “All about God” and followed some of their links where they present ‘evidence’ that the flood never happened, the eye is impossible for evolution to come up with, the second law of thermodynamics says that evolution is impossible, God is not a delusion, how evolution cannot explain everything, therefore it must be wrong, Dinosaurs and men walked together, and many many more.

These are old arguments, which have long ago been discredited and proven wrong by later science. The one that gets to me the worst is how evolution can’t explain everything …therefore it’s wrong. The religious person would have us leave it there and not refine it more…we can’t explain it therefore God did it. No more research or investigation…God did it and that’s that.

We have had that before and it was called the “Dark Ages”…and it wasn’t pretty. People running around thinking they have God on their side are very dangerous. They get it in their head that they can kill and torture people (this is one of the very strong reasons I believe this God is false) because of what said people think. We can’t afford to let that happen ever again.

How can God be three, yet one?

Ran across this phrase on Google today, and it led me to think; if a square circle was mentioned in the Bible, do you think we humans would still be trying to make one? Since it was mentioned in the Bible, do you think that Christian fundamentalists would be bending over backwards trying to explain it to the Godless? I’ll bet you they would. :-)

I heard the news yesterday that the Catholic Church has given the official okey-dokey to believe in aliens-No, not the kind that cross our borders, but the kind that fly around in those saucer shaped things.

“Writing in the Vatican newspaper, the astronomer, Father Gabriel Funes, said intelligent beings created by God could exist in outer space.
“Just as there are multiple forms of life on earth, so there could exist intelligent beings in outer space created by God. And some aliens could even be free from original sin” (Gee, you think?), he speculates. “My emphasis and comment”
Father Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory near Rome, is a respected scientist who collaborates with universities around the world.” From BBC News

Now I seem to remember being told that we humans were really special and irreplaceable in Gods eyes and it seemed to be implied that we were alone in the universe. We were the saved ones.

We are getting pretty good at finding planets circling around other stars, and we will get better at it when new space telescopes come online. There’s a real good chance there is other life out there. It will be interesting to watch church theology and apologetics evolve, if in fact we do find other life.

And on a…kinda…related note, The UK Ministry of Defense has announced they are going to release nearly 200 files on their investigations of UFO’s of the last 30 years or so. Hmmm, is there something going on here? From BBC News

For latest post go: Here

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Is God Omniscient and Omnipotent?

“Once there was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time is called the Dark Ages.”

Hi Dove124, thank you for your reply.

“The story lacking in Logic” That is your point of view concerning the bible. FYI, a) It is not the intention of God that Lucifer should turn up the way he is.”

Well, yes it is my point of view and I am not alone in that view. Your point (a) was answered in the body of the original post. Repeated here: Since God created the whole shebang, so to speak, I would assume he is also responsible for evil. People have told me nothing exists in this world, except by God. If in fact He is all knowing He would surely know right away that his creation of Satan was wrong…in point of fact, an all knowing God would have realized it immediately. He should have corrected it then, not allowed the melodrama to start.

“b) the word Trinity was not in the bible c) God is not all knowing d) God is not everywhere e) there are things that God can’t do ( as some people perceive to be )”

Your point (b). Yes I know that, I have argued that there is no Trinity. The post you were looking at was an answer to someone who was arguing for a Trinity
Your Point (c and d). Every Christian I have EVER talked to has said that God was omnipotent and omniscience. The general definition of a God is such.
Your point (e). The general definition of God is such. If you know something I don’t in this matter, I would love to hear about it.

“And your thought that human need no biblical source to tell them what is evil, and just follow the “Golden Rule” is contradicting yourself. Golden Rule is a biblical source. And another thing is, you can’t tell what is right and what is wrong if there is no law telling you.”

Well if it’s in the Bible, then men thought it up. Men go around all the time making up rules and laws…consider Murphy’s law. I could tell right from wrong when I was 5 years old…didn’t need Bible to tell me that.

“Because sin is the transgression of the law. The law in the first place was created for the wicked and not for the just.”

So, if I jaywalk…I’m committing sin? What is your definition of wicked?

“So, if your interested to know the answers of a-d , just ask me . Until next time.
God bless”

Answered in reply to point (e).
Thanks for your reply Dove124

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Trinity, Evil, Sin, Death

Hi Robaigh, Thank you for you’re input, and good to hear from you again.
For some reason I can’t get my reply panel to work properly, so you are also on main post window.

Robaigh, I am always confused :-)
Really though, I just cannot seem to understand a lot of things in Christianity. And I find a lot of different interpretations of the same events. In my posts I am trying to draw out peoples viewpoints and their vision of the faith. I try not to sound too caustic, but I’m sure I am occasionally.

>>The Trinity (Father, Son & Spirit; perpetual “begotten-ness” of the Son; procession of the Spirit from the Father and the Son)<<

I really don’t understand this trinity thing, and from all of my investigating it sure seems to be a made-up-by-man thing. More than a few have tried to clue me in, but have failed. It may be crystal clear to them, but to me it is mud. I think I have heard all the standard explanations.

>>Salvation history - Jesus incarnated among the Jews as fulfillment of God’s promise to redeem the world via the Chosen People<<

I understand that Jesus was of Jewish/Hebrew origin, but where did the promise come from and why do we need redeeming…are you talking of Paul’s Original Sin Hypothesis? Wasn’t Jesus preaching that the ‘Kingdom of God was coming soon and for people to be good Jews?

>>the “problem” of death<<

>>the “problem” of evil (and the origins thereof)<<

I don’t see a problem with death. We’re born, we live, and we die. Most of the more complicated pagan gods promised life after death…I don’t think it’s a realistic promise or a realistic expectation. What’s the point?

Since God created the whole shebang, so to speak, I would assume he is also responsible for evil. People have told me nothing exists in this world, except by God. If in fact He is all knowing He would surely know right away that his creation of Satan was wrong…in point of fact, an all knowing God would have realized it immediately. He should have corrected it then, not allowed the melodrama to start. And why would a God be concerned with little human problems? Which we wouldn’t have had if He had left us alone and kept Satan out of Eden. The story is very lacking in logic.

From what I can see, it was the old Jewish men of the period around 1000 to 400 BCE who decided what was evil or sinful. We all have human traits, and yes, something’s are bad and we need to control them. But, I don’t think many of them are necessarily sins.

I also don’t think that humans need a biblical source to tell them what is evil. I think the ‘Golden Rule’ just about sums up all we need to be good/not evil.

>>>Are you actually confused (meaning: do you really want to discuss these things) or are you just “ranting” as your tags suggests?<<<

I think I have used the rant tag on all my posts. :-)

I always enjoy your replies Robaigh…thanks for your time.

For latest post go: Here

Jesus is…God?

Hi Idugan, how very nice to hear from you. Thank you for your reply.

I had to put this on a regular post, I could not get the reply pane to copy properly.

>>>First, of all Jesus is Holy because He IS God.<<<

Now you see, that is one of the things that is very confusing. Jesus was a created being. If my mom and dad have a child…that child is a creation…of my parents. If God creates a being such as Jesus or Satan…these are “children” of God…as are we. We are not our parents. And why would there be no mention of trinity for a hundred or so years after the death of Jesus? This whole trinity thing really smells. I’m sorry to be so blunt. But, as you may have heard a hundred times already, I believe Paul, or the Catholic Church, or both, made up the trinity.

If this trinity turns out to be true (Jesus being God), does this seal-the-deal that God is male? Not to be Sacrilegious, but didn’t Jesus go around kissing Mary Magdalene?

>>>Satan and his followers (”demons”) were thrown out of heaven after trying to say they were “better” than God. Third, the Holy Spirit, also, IS God…not created by God…and that is why He is holy.<<<

Now why would an “Angel” go around saying or thinking (remember God knows your heart) stupid things like that? Apparently Angels are intelligent. Does it make sense that a created, most likely very intelligent, being would think he was better than his creator? Remember this is someone who is (or was) actually in the presence of God. An insider so to speak, one who…EVERY DAY…sees/saw the actual, LITERAL power of GOD in person.

This sounds to me, very much like a human creation. An attempt to create a dramatic scenario, describing something that WE have no possible idea or understanding of. Again, to be blunt…this is a bad story line. Holy spirit always seemed to me to be a phenomenon that humans experienced, not a ‘person or thing.’

>>>God is behind everything. He upholds and sustains EVERYTHING. So he is behind every birth, every breath, every storm, every step, every death. It’s all in His plan. (Paul, a mere human, cannot TELL God to DO anything…)<<<

If in fact God was intimately involved with us humans…I could believe…maybe…that this might be true. I see a possible God making the universe (ours) 14 billion or so years ago and moving on to other things. Why on earth would a GOD want to mess around on the scale of us humans and our petty disputes and killing each other? This is just logic. A God who creates whole universes has better things to do. He’s probably in another dimension, creating new universes? :-)

We humans are way too egotistical in thinking a GOD would care about petty human problems. And the religious leaders have an imagination problem; they can’t seem to get a real image of a REAL GOD in their mind well enough to see what a God would actually be like. The story as told now…is childish…it envisions a very petty and small God.

The sin and redemption shtick is getting very old. Spirits in the sky and evil demons went out many, many years ago. Have you ever experienced one? None of the people I know or have known have ever seen one. I don’t expect to either.

Did you ever notice that God doesn’t go around killing men, women, and children in the New Testament? He, or whoever was writing about Him, stopped reporting on His bad temper and bad habits.

Again Idugan thanks for replying. I value your comments.

For latest post go: Here

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John 3:16 For God So Loved…

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

God gave his Son. Not Himself, but His Son…to our world…well actually to the Middle East.

Now I suppose Jesus would be Holy, after all he was created by God…wait a minute…so were we!

So were the angels and demons and Satan.

So was the Holy Spirit…so was everything.

Are we all Holy? Are we all God; as Jesus is in the trinity?

Do you suppose He created them (Jesus, angels, demons, Satan, Holy Spirit, etc.) all at the same time or separately? If He created them separately, as it seems He would, then it seems that they are separate creations. A result of His magic…not actually “of” Himself, but of His magic…His spoken or imagined words…much as he is said to have created our universe.

Why does He keep killing us? Well actually, except for not interfering with evil (which He directly created), he hasn’t directly killed anyone (that I know of) for about 4,000 years…more or less.

Do you suppose He stopped because Paul told Him to? Bad image and all that…gotta get that “Loving God” thing going.

Boy, this sure gets confusing.

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Moses is Not Writer of Genesis

So, we all know that Moses wrote of Abraham as coming out from “Ur of the Chaldeans” in Genesis 11:31

“Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to Haran, they settled there.”

We also know that Moses wrote of Abraham coming to the rescue of his nephew Lot, in the city of Dan, in Genesis 14: 14-15

“When Abram heard that his relative had been taken captive, he called out the 318 trained men born in his household and went in pursuit as far as Dan. 15 During the night Abram divided his men to attack them and he routed them, pursuing them as far as Hobah, north of Damascus. 16 He recovered all the goods and brought back his relative Lot and his possessions, together with the women and the other people.”

So what we end up with in the timeline is this: Dates are ‘roughly’ and may vary slightly from sect to sect.

Abraham Born 2020 BCE-Died 1845 BCE
Moses Born 1595 BCE-Died 1475
City of Laish–renamed Dan 1200-1100 BCE
Chaldean tribe comes into existence 1000-900 BCE
Chaldeans take over the city of Ur c.627-625 BCE. Ur then became known as “Ur of the Chaldeans”
Moses died a few hundred years before the city of ‘Dan’ existed.
Moses died about 800 years before “Ur of the Chaldean” existed. Not the city, but the Phrase.

How did he write about it? He didn’t. The Pentateuch was rewritten and redacted well after Moses died. From this evidence, there is no real doubt about the Documentary Hypothesis.

The Catholic Encyclopedia pretty much admits this. Look up the whole thing here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01051a.htm

“Quite a different view on the section of Genesis treating of Abraham, and indeed of the whole of Genesis, is taken by modern critical scholars. They almost unanimously hold that the narrative of the patriarch’s life is composed practically in its entirety of three writings or writers called respectively the Jahvist, the Elohist, and the priestly writer, and denoted by the letters J, E, and P. J and E consisted of collections of stories relating to the patriarch, some of older, some of later, origin.”…

…”Finally, the moral to be drawn from the various events narrated is more clearly set forth in this third writing and, according to the critics the moral standpoint is that of the fifth century B.C. Lastly, after the time of Ezra, this last history, P was worked up into one with the already combined narrative J.E. by a second redactor R. JEP, the result being the present history of Abraham, and indeed the present book of Genesis; though in all probability insertions were made at even a later date.”

So, what all of this is saying, is that Moses couldn’t have written the parts that are ascribed to him, and whoever did write it, had to be from a time much later than Moses. Therefore parts of the Bible are false.

If someone can prove parts of your religious belief are wrong; why should anyone believe your religion is true? What else could they be wrong about?

For later: Do Christians believe that God made us immortal, and Adam & Eve caused us to die because of their sin?

For latest post go: Here

Lady Explains Truth of Noah’s Flood

After months, even years of dangerous and terrifying web surfing, and suffering the slings and arrows of bad websites and false information, I came across one site that has the best explanation for Noah’s flood I’ve ever heard. :-)

The logic and clearness of the explanation are exceptional for a writer that is obviously Christian and evangelical. If you are a religious fundamentalist, or evangelical, or Young Earth Creationist, or even Old Earth Creationist, I urge you to read the linked pdf file (Here) with as open a mind as you can muster, because this may just be the right story. (Caution-the pdf file is 14 pages long-you might want to have broadband for this)

All my adult life I have not believed in the Noachian Flood, because the evidence was never there, or what ever theories were being pushed sounded so unbelievable that I could not wrap my brain around it.

Now don’t misunderstand me…all I’m saying here is that if the Old Testament is a compilation of Hebrew folk tales…this is how the story should be interpreted. It doesn’t require the logic and mind-bending gyrations and back-flips that every other religious explanation seems to necessitate.

“The Noachian Flood has been one of the sharpest centers of controversy in the long history of warfare between biblical theology and science. It also has been one of the main stumbling blocks to faith, especially for scientists. Was this a universal flood responsible for all fossils and sedimentary rock on the face of the Earth, as some biblical literalists maintain, or was it a local flood confined to the limits of Mesopotamia?”

It starts by placing Noah and the Flood in about 2900 BCE (Jemdet Nasr Period in the area), which just happens to be when there is real archaeological evidence for a Large flood in the Mesopotamian area. At later dates (2200-2700 BC) there is no physical evidence of a large horizon-to-horizon flood event.

The writer continues by saying that you need to take the Bible text at ‘face value’, and not read into it words that are not there. We’re talking the original text here, not one of the many modern interpretations. She states that the real scientific disciplines of geology, geography, archaeology, biology, and physics can be accurately applied to these events of ancient times.

“The Bible can be taken at face value; that is, the biblical writer was accurately recording historical events of ancient times, viewed within the culture of those times. By taking the Bible at face value, nothing is to be read into the Bible that is not explicitly stated in its original (autograph) text.”

Another thing one has to appreciate is the language of the times and the different descriptive terms used. I am not an ancient language expert, but the explanations given seem very logical, and most importantly, they make the story…make sense…in light of modern knowledge, and don’t require a fantastical jump in logic.

The part where she takes on the Flood Geologists makes me smile. It shows up the wrong-headedness that some religious people put into trying to explain the unexplainable.

“Flood Geology. In addition to a lack of any real geological evidence for flood geology, there are also no biblical verses that support this hypothesis. The whole construct of flood geology is based on the original assumption (which is wrong) that the Noachian Flood was universal and covered the whole Earth. Since the Flood was supposedly worldwide, then there must be evidence in the geologic record left by it. Parenthesis comment added.”

The Flood Geologist has to bend and distort logic and resort to lies of omission to try to make the story come out the way they want, instead you just read the story the right way, and voilá, the science and logic lines up.

I have just skimmed the surface here. The author goes into Geological, archaeological, linguistic, historical, and geographic evidence and ties every thing together better than anyone I have-ever-read. Although she uses some religious sources, she also has a long list of secular scientific sources. Her name is Carol Hill, she is a geologist, and her analysis of this matter needs to be taken into serious consideration.

But, thats just my opinion. What’s yours?

For latest post go: Here

Origins of Life?

Science today seems to be getting closer and closer to figuring out this life thing. I am definitely not a advanced Biology scientist, but the article below seems to me to point to the beginnings of us humans being able to either create life, or at the least, figure out if life is a common happening in our Universe. I’m not sure if I should be scared or happy.

“Researchers at the University of California, Santa Cruz, have determined the three-dimensional structure of an RNA enzyme, or “ribozyme,” that carries out a fundamental reaction required to make new RNA molecules. Their results provide insight into what may have been the first self-replicating molecule to arise billions of years ago on the evolutionary path toward the emergence of life.

In all forms of life known today, the synthesis of DNA and RNA molecules is carried out by enzymes made of proteins. The instructions for making those proteins are contained in genes made of DNA or RNA (nucleic acids).

“Which came first, nucleic acids or proteins? This question once seemed an intractable paradox, but with the discovery of ribozymes, it is now possible to imagine a prebiotic ‘RNA World’ in which self-replicating ribozymes accomplished both tasks,” said William Scott, associate professor of chemistry and biochemistry at UC Santa Cruz.” See full article at: Red Orbit

You may know that back in the early 50’s Stanley Miller and Harold Urey conducted an experiment at the University of Chicago wherein they took methane, ammonia, hydrogen, and water and ran an electric currant (to simulate lightening) thru the mixture and found they could make organic compounds such as amino acids. No, this wasn’t life, but the experiment showed that compounds essential to cellular life could easily be made under the conditions that were believed (at the time) to be present on the earth in early times

On September 28, 1969; a meteorite fell over Murchison, Australia. 100 kilograms (220 lbs.) were recovered. Analysis of the meteorite has shown that it is rich with amino acids. 90 some amino acids have been identified by researchers to date. Nineteen of these amino acids are found on Earth.

These findings, and others, are leading us on an amazing journey of discovery. The next hundred years, I predict, will be a great time to be alive (if we survive religious terrorism). I am jealous of those who will be present for them.

For latest post go: Here

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Women are Evil…Bible

There are hundreds of things that are found wrong in the Scriptures. There is not only factual and Scriptural ambiguity and error, but there is intellectual error, there is obvious human interjection of the “Godly” qualities that Yahweh, El, Jehovah, or Elohim displayed. How inexplicably egotistical to say or even think, “we are made in the image of God…that is man wishing/speaking…not God.

I’m going to risk the displeasure of the ‘gods’ here and say that no real god acts or thinks like the god/s of the Christian religion as displayed in the Bible.

There should NEVER have been slavery. I don’t think most Christian believers have even thought about this lately. A “Loving God” is totally incompatible with the fact of Old Testament-God approved-human slavery. Period…no wishy washy crap allowed here

Also a “Loving God” is totally incompatible with making half of the human race less than human. The stronger half of the human race trying to pawn off that any defects in life are the fault of the woman is pure evil, in and of it’s self.

“And a man will choose…any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman…Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die” Ecclesiastics, 25:18, 19 & 33.

And I find more bitter than death the woman whose heart is snares and nets, whose hands are fetters. He who pleases God shall escape from her, but the sinner shall be trapped by her.” Ecclesiastes 7:26,

As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power….” Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Q92, art. 1, Reply Obj. 1

Everywhere I turn and look, strong evidence comes up that religion is a purely man made phenomenon. The Christian Bible is a fraud. There is no God in residence there.

Paul made up the “original sin” BS. Paul pretty much made up the whole Christianity shtick. Well, Constantine and Eusubius helped it along…300 years later.

For latest post go: Here