Christian or Scientist…yes / no
February 16, 2008 7 Comments
Would you answer these questions if given to you by a friend?
Do you expect your children to go to a regular secular colleges?
Would you like all schools to teach creationist/Christian beliefs in science classes; i.e. Evolution didn’t happen?
Do you think that our government should be Christian based and run from a theological perspective?
Do you think our government should be able to tell its citizens how to live, love, marry, raise their children, etc?
Should our government be able to follow the Biblical principles of “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?”
Do you believe that evolution is “bad science?”
Do you accept the geological column as described by scientists as real?
How old do you think the earth/world is?
How old would you guess the universe to be?
How old do you think humanity is?
Describe briefly how you think our world began.
Do you think that men/women lived at the same time as dinosaurs.
Do you think the whole world was flooded at one time (Noah’s Flood) about 4000 to 4300 years ago.
Do you think intelligent design (ID) is about science or religion?
If you believe it is science; who or what is the intelligence behind it?
If you believe it is religion; why would you want it taught in public schools? Separation of church/state issues here.
Have you heard about Neanderthals?
Do believe that were real?
Do you know how long ago they lived?
Describe where you think they came from.
Do you think that scientists commonly lie about what they find, or the truths they uncover.
Do you think there are magical forces in the universe?
How big a part of your life does religion play?
Do you think non-religious people are ‘bad?’
Do you think people of ‘other’ religions are bad or mislead?
Have you seen proof of a Christian God, or Muslim, or Hindu, or Brahman, etc.?
If yes; please describe.
Do you always follow Biblical teachings?
Do you think the Bible is literally true in all ways?
Do you think men/women are inherently good or bad?
Do you think Adam and Eve were created 6000 years ago in the “Garden of Eden?”
Since Neanderthals were alive at that time; where did they come from?
Did Cain marry a Neanderthal, or his sister?
Do you believe that scientists can accurately date artifacts from thousands of years ago?
Do you know how many methods there are of dating prehistoric artifacts?
If you are a Biblical literalist; do you believe all methods of dating artifacts are lies/wrong?
I have a few overtly Christian friends I am going to ask to answer these questions. In a proper non-confrontational, friendly manner of course. Some times the different thoughts they express are very confusing. It’s like they mix and match world views. Might be fun, or I might lose some friends. Hope not.
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When I first looked at this post, I thought about replying by answering all of the questions. I decided it was too many. So instead, I’m going to cover one general area: evolution. You ask several questions about if creationism should be taught, and what Christians believe about good and bad science. What I think is important to note is that evolution is NOT fact, it is theory. There is evidence that it may have happened, but you can’t prove it, and never will, much like the big bang.
Of course I can’t prove that the Earth is only 6,000 years old instead of millions of years old, but that kind of detail really doesn’t matter to me. When I think of the incomparable love of God, none of that matters.
If you would like to explore the Biblical side, I recently started reading a book that might interest you. It is called: “7 Reasons why you can Trust the Bible” by by Erwin Lutzer, and so far is an excellent read.
http://russbonchu.reachby.com
Why do you put quotation marks around the word ‘other’ in the question about other religions?
men4god: “What I think is important to note is that evolution is NOT fact, it is theory. There is evidence that it may have happened, but you can’t prove it, and never will, much like the big bang.”
Like most non-scientists you don’t know what a scientific theory is. Look it up if you’re interested.
Evolution is most definitely a proven beyond any doubt fact. The fossil evidence explains how life evolved. The DNA evidence proves all life is related. There is massive lead-pipe evidence for evolution, including the development of humans from other animals. We are the descendants of ancient apes and ancient fish. The basic facts of biological evolution have been accepted by virtually all biologists for a very long time. All life shares a common ancestor. If you could go back in time about 2 billion years you could meet the common ancestor of people and bananas.
An uneducated non-scientist might find the facts of evolution difficult to believe. The solution is education. Or you could spend your entire life never knowing what you are.
men4god: “Of course I can’t prove that the Earth is only 6,000 years old instead of millions of years old, but that kind of detail really doesn’t matter to me. When I think of the incomparable love of God, none of that matters.”
It’s billions, not millions, of years old. This earth is about 4.5 billion years old. The universe is about 3 times as old as the earth. This doesn’t matter to you? Do you think God likes willfully ignorant people?
Hi men4god, Thank you for your kind reply.
You are misunderstanding the word ‘theory’ as used in the sciences.
What has been happening for over 300 years is that science is chipping away at religious ‘facts.’ It is more and more being disproved…the thing is that some blocks of Christianity are just denying, refusing to accept what is happening.
Darwin’s work is NOT being recanted by science, to the contrary it gets stronger every year. Naturalists were starting to doubt the Flood in the 1700’s. 150 years (of Darwin) or so and it remains strong.
There are some people out there that are writing books that contain a lot of dis-information about evolution. They write them directly to conservative, evangelicals, knowing they have a built in audience, and they keep recycling hoary old tidbits, that have long ago been disproved
Regarding the 6,000 years, the only reason it would matter is that there are undeniable (to me) proof just laying around that the earth AND humanity are FAR older than that, and that goes to the reliability and factuality of Bible.
Now I know that there is truth in there…places, names, some history, but it is not 100% factual and right, and there are too many discrepancies for it to be truly “inspired of God.” If God were truly causing men to write what he directed those discrepancies would not be there.
Religion is a matter of “faith” and that is what it takes, because there are not many provable facts.
I don’t know how old you are, but if you are relatively young I predict you will only see more confirmation of science…if you listen for it.
Again, thank you for taking the time to relay your comments. I truly appreciate it.
Hi coolstuffhappening, Laziness, I keep missing the shift key. I am a hunt and peck typist. If you wonder why I would mark it at all, I suppose it’s because I aim these posts mainly at Christians, and I can hear those quote marks when they speak about “other” religions. Sometimes they even quote mark other Christian denominations. Sorry if it offends you.
Thank you for your reply, I truly appreciate it.
As a Bible believer I have absolutely no difficulty to believe that the Universe is millions of years old. After all. where does the Bible give a date to creation? The word ‘day’ in Genesis can not mean twenty four hour day as our Sun came into the scene on the forth day of creation.
As a Bible believer I see there is tremendous agreement between Science and the Bible. After all, the Bible does not say that the whole creation came into existence in one second as any one should expect from an ancient piece of writing when there was no scientific knowledge at all. According to the Bible the univers came first, then only on the forth stage of creation our Sun and Moon come into existence(Gen.1:16). Then came plant life and later animals came into existence. My Bible says that man came to the scene only at the end. To me this is basically agreement between modern science and the ancient piece of writing which the Bible is.
The date of Adam and Eve can not be traced from genealogy in Genesis as the Bible often skips generations when it comes to genealogy , as Christ is called ‘son of David’, and the age of man on earth is surely much more than 6000 years. But it can not be millions of years as no trace of modern civilized man is there on the face of the earth going back to that time.
The Bible says that Cain built the first city (Gen.4:7). He was the second generation of modern civilized man. Tell us where is the earliest trace of human settlement on the face of the earth?
It may be of interest to you that the Bible does not concern itself withn pre-Adamic human race/s. The Bible only concerns itself with modern civilized man who occupies the present earth.
I’d love to hear from you.
Hi empy, thank you for your reply.
I’m really sorry… I just now found your comment. I will answer it even not knowing if you are still around.
You write:
“As a Bible believer I have absolutely no difficulty to believe that the Universe is millions of years old. After all where does the Bible give a date to creation? The word ‘day’ in Genesis cannot mean twenty four hour day as our Sun came into the scene on the fourth day of creation.”
There are a few million people in the US who believe the earth to be about 6,000 to 10,000 years old and “creation” to have taken 6 literal 24 hour days. I primarily write to them…but much of what I write about is pertinent to all of Christianity.
You write:
“As a Bible believer I see there is tremendous agreement between Science and the Bible. After all, the Bible does not say that the whole creation came into existence in one second as anyone should expect from an ancient piece of writing when there was no scientific knowledge at all.”
Science is telling us that humans (Homo-sapiens) have been roaming the earth for 200,000 years give or take a few thousand years. Before that there were “proto-humans” such as Homo-Neanderthals and Homo-erectus, and Homo-Heidelbergensis, etc., and these lines went back several million years. The last of the Proto-humans (Neanderthals) died out about 25,000 to 30,000 years ago. We are the last remaining line of the genus Homo. These facts alone remove the possibility of there being an “Adam and Eve” as portrayed in the Bible.
We have recently found that from 2 to 4 percent of Europeans and some Asians carry some of the Neanderthal genome…meaning that we interbred with them at some point in the distant past and the offspring were fertile. That sends a chill down my spine, as I interpret this to mean that these proto-humans are the missing links and we are truly descended from early hominids…i.e. – chimps/apes/bonobos. Darwin was right again.
You write:
“According to the Bible the universe came first, then only on the fourth stage of creation our Sun and Moon come into existence(Gen.1:16). Then came plant life and later animals came into existence. My Bible says that man came to the scene only at the end. To me this is basically agreement between modern science and the ancient piece of writing which the Bible is.”
Check your Bible again. The Bible says that plants were made on the day preceding the making of the sun.
Genesis 11to 15: 11Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.”
Kinda funny that God would have made plants before he made the Sun…seeing as how that’s what makes plants live and operate, photo-synthesis that is.
You write:
“The date of Adam and Eve cannot be traced from genealogy in Genesis as the Bible often skips generations when it comes to genealogy , as Christ is called ‘son of David’, and the age of man on earth is surely much more than 6000 years. But it cannot be millions of years as no trace of modern civilized man is there on the face of the earth going back to that time.”
This is mostly answered in one of the paragraphs above. Modern man is traceable back to about 200,000 years ago, with the proto-humans to about 3,000,000 or so years ago. Christ is not “Son of David” as the genealogy as listed in the Bible stops at Joseph and Joseph was not the “biological father” to Jesus…remember the “virgin conception”.
You write:
“The Bible says that Cain built the first city (Gen.4:7). He was the second generation of modern civilized man. Tell us where is the earliest trace of human settlement on the face of the earth?”
The furthest back we have been able to trace actual cities is about 9,000 to 11,000 years ago. So for the Bible to be true on this matter Cain would have had to live somewhere in these time periods. Let us use 10,000 years as the average. From 10,000 years ago up to the present times humans have settled in towns, villages, and cities. Before that (about 190,000 years), we were hunter-gatherers and moved around relatively large geographical areas to find food.
The genetic DNA evidence says that all of humanity has their roots in Africa, and that at least twice, groups of our forefathers and mothers moved out of Africa, and spread slowly all over the earth. Archaeological evidence says that most of Europe and Asia were populated around 40,000 years ago by Homo-sapiens and Homo-Neanderthal was already there, Australia about 40,000 years ago, and the Americas (North and South) by 15,000 years ago…maybe earlier, but the evidence is not all in yet.
You write:
“It may be of interest to you that the Bible does not concern itself with pre-Adamic human race/s. The Bible only concerns itself with modern civilized man who occupies the present earth.”
Define “civilized man.” The Bible goes back to the very beginning of time if you believe in the Old Testament. We now know that most of the main points of the OT are myths and not true at all. We know that Adam and Eve never existed, there was no Noah’s flood, no Tower of Babel, no Exodus, no knocking down of the walls of Jericho, and Moses is fictional, as is Abraham and most likely David. There were no Goliaths roaming around the Israeli area either (or any other place).
Now these points have a large impact on the New Testament. If Adam and Eve never existed that means that there was no need for a Christ to absolve our “Original Sin” No need for Jesus equals he probably is all myth. After all the Jews don’t believe he was the Messiah and they knew God intimately. He may have been an actual human, but not a Son of God or God himself.
Peace